[Hairog]

My whole storyline up till now is here.

viewtopic.php?p=275897#275897

I need comments and if anyone wants to join in and help develop individual sub campaigns let me know. I already have someone working with me to developing the Murmansk Invasion sub campaign and we are really having a good time with it. Paratroops, massive sea battles, stealth attacks etc.

I've given him the parameters so that it fits into the overall storyline and then let him go at it.

If anyone is interested I need assistance with...

1. Strategic bombing campaign based in Egypt attacking the oil production centers in the Caucuses.
2. Soviet invasion of Turkey/Palestine and up to the Suez Canal.
3. The invasion of Riga in the Baltic Sea by NATO.
4. The invasion of Trieste, Italy and march through the Balaton/Slovakian/Lvov/Kiev/Kursk maps by NATO.
5. Soviet counter attack on forward fighter bases on Rhodes, Turkey and Cyprus.
6. NATO counter attack from the Pyrenees Line to take back Western Europe.
7. Numerous Naval operations such as...
Invasion of Northern Black Sea coast
Interdiction missions all over Western Europe
The Battle for the Black Sea
The Battle of the Baltic Sea
Just think of all the assets the we were going to use against Imperial Japan let loose in the Med/Black/Baltic Seas.
8. NATO counter attack in the Mideast up to Stalingrad (like Hitler could have done).

Just imagine the fun you will have designing missions with tons of those weird jets and German wonder weapons. So far I have the GO229 as a heavy fighter attacking hoards of Soviet bombers, Mig 9 and Yak 15s going head to head with YP80s, Yak 7R/Me 163/ B-6/Lerches intercepting streams of B29s escorted by 109Zs/P51s/YP80s/Me262s/TA183s, AR234 slicing in for pinpoint bombing missions and recon flights, He 162s taking on TA183s, wire guided missiles wasting bomber streams, etc.

Have you seen what a TA183s 4 x 30mm cannons can do to a Soviet bomber? How about one Lerche taking out 4 B29s with those wire guided missiles of theirs. it is very interesting and it all could have possibly happened.

Contact me at hkellogg36[at]gmail.com if you want to join in the fun.

[Bobbo]

There was a war plan:
Dropshot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dropshot

earlier Totality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Totality

This is article on Dropshot speculates how a WWIII could start
http://www.johnreilly.info/ww3.htm

(It assumes Stalin is still alive in the '50s and Adlai Stevenson is president and they have the personalities & policies the writer ascribes to them)

http://www.johnreilly.info/ww3.htm

If the parties to the Cold War had wanted a military showdown, they would have had several perfectly suitable occasions in 1956, notably the Suez Crisis and the Hungarian Uprising. Had Stalin still been alive at that time, it is conceivable that he would have started to deal with the peoples of Eastern Europe as he had begun to deal with the peoples of the Soviet Union in the 1930s. Certainly some Eastern Europeans believed that Stalin was planning massive movements of populations and the vigorous purging of pre-World War II society. If this happened, an outraged Stevenson Administration might then have announced its intention to send a standby expeditionary force to Western Europe to support any future popular uprisings in Eastern Europe. Less suspicious rulers than Stalin would have been moved to preemptive action in such an event. He would not have been reassured by the interminable flow of moralistic rhetoric that President Stevenson could have been relived upon to produce. There would have been too much of it to read, much less analyze. Stalin could easily have decided that he could no longer wait for his creatures in Western Europe to take power through force or fraud. Hoping for a decisive victory before the U.S. expeditionary force could arrive, he sends his armies across the north German plain to take the ports on the English Channel.

Easy enough to have Stalin send in the NKVD in '46-'47 to liquidate out his "enemies" en mass in eastern Europe and with the memory still fresh of the Nazi death camps Trunman being so outraged to see a repeat he moves to stop it by force.

[Hairog]

Very good information Bobbo. Most or all of it pertains to much later in techical terms than my alternative history scenerio.

To sum it all up

[kg64v_Silent Strika]

so what? do the Soviets retreat, or do they have to break out, THEN march on moscow?

[Hairog]

Good question. Here is their situation. The large majority of the Soviet troops are in the South of France on the Spanish border. They are over 1200 miles from the Ukraine border. To make matters worse the Ukraine has been liberated by NATO and the other Soviet satellites are following along the same path. They are turning on their would be Soviet masters.

So basically the Soviet troops would have to fight their way on foot, without any supplies, farther than any other army has ever retreated in history. All of their trail of tears would be through hostile territory. Unlike Napoleon, who made the trip the other way, there are a couple of well supplied, mobile, motivated, and experienced NATO armies between them and home.

To make matters worse the army they are presently facing has been newly supplied and is chomping at the bit for revenge and is mobile and out for blood. At anytime another force could cross the English Channel as well and interdict your progress home.

Another factor is air power. There is no where to hide and no where to run. Napoleon did not have to worry about P-38s and P- 47s. NATO planes from both the East, West, North and South own the skies because your air forces do not have the fuel needed to escape, much less offer any opposition. Plus you have been fighting for constantly 15 months with commissars threatening you and your family back home and making you do inhumane things and perform impossible feats.

I know of no army in a similar situation that has done anything but surrender.

The Soviet forces in the Mideast are in a similar if not worse situation. They are surrounded on three sides North, South and West. To the East is desert. They have to face marching over 1200 miles through hostile territory on foot under constant attack with no way to fight back at your antagonizers. No food and more importantly in the Mideast and Turkey, there is no water. They too face mobile armies both to their rear and to their front. I'm betting that they will surrender as well.

Now, in contrast, the forces facing the NATO armies near Smolensk, Kursk and Stalingrad have plenty of supply and the newest equipment. All of the equipment that is being produced in the Urals is piling up in Moscow with no where to go. Food, tanks, the newest jets are all sitting in storage and transit areas.

There still are plenty of soldiers on hand to man the defenses of Moscow and Stalingrad. They are however the very young, very old, very inexperienced and untrained.

The cream of the Soviet forces are trapped in the Mideast and France. Stalin is obviously not in control and possibly insane at this point.

The NATO Allies have no desire to invade any further into the USSR with winter coming on. Generous terms are offered for the soldiers who surrender and this they do by the tens of thousands. The commissars and fanatical communist party members start killing their own troops to keep them from surrendering. Revolts start to spread with memories of 1918 are in the air.

Stalin has rejected NATO's unconditional surrender demands.

This is my idea of how to end WWIII 1946.

British MI6 finds out that Stalin and his HQ staff are going to inspect the troops in Stalingrad. The morning of Stalin's visit to the front an ominous silence falls over the defensive lines. It's almost as if the NATO troops had retreated and where giving up.

Just then three heavily escorted B29s appear on radar heading towards Stalingrad.

Stalin and the city of Stalingrad disappear from the face of the earth in a blinding flash.

The new Free Russian Government unconditionally surrenders within 24 hours.