[Username]

A statement wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it would help either.

This is a suggestion emanating from the Ubi forum online fraternity and it is designed to placate other members of the Ubi online crowd - those who are antagonistic towards this board.
Quite why the owners of this site should concern themselves about the Ubi board is hard to fathom. You either like what is going on here, or you don't, and it only takes a few minutes of reading the posts to form an opinion. It would be a sad day if members of one special interest group were allowed to hijack the agenda for their own purposes.

Having said that, the moderators here have repeatedly said they will not endorse, or offer, any mods that tamper with FM and DMs of Maddox originals. That's really all you need.

The real dilemma for the online community is that QTim's SFS tools are freely available from his website (I just checked and they are still there) - there must have been thousands of downloads by now. Any 'code of conduct' designed to appeal to Ubi board members would not have a lot of value IMO because this is not the only site offering mods. I know of a Russian forum, a Polish forum and a French forum where similar work is going on. You gonna lobby them for a statement too? :roll:

Secondly, self-policing such as we have here only prevents people like Joe Average getting access to questionable mods. You know who I mean - the typical simmer who can use a mod but isn't techno-savvy enough to produce one himself. However, it does NOTHING to stop the more computer literate from creating mods that enable them to instantaneously change weights, drag coefficients, and horsepowers. They are the problem, and they were created by QTim. (I am assuming all this can be done and that it can have an effect online).

So I don't think a 'code of conduct' would allay any fears or, in reality, change the situation. The solution is to fly with people you know and trust - if you don't, you're asking for trouble. The online community just needs to regulate its own activities in order to stay healthy.

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This to Wolf, Jolly and Wasy:
If you start making concessions to the Ubi fraternity, it will be the thin end of the wedge. And it may encourage many of them to decamp here - along with their attitudes. Do you really want that? :wink:

[Trooper117]

I agree with your post mate.. But I have an account at ubi, and at simhq, and I have de-camped here as well.. Do you really want that??..lol! :lol:
I think all forums wherever are going through the mill over this issue..
my take on this has always been, 'let them come'.. as long as they behave and don't bring their attitudes with them, well, with a bit of coaxing they may come around..
But you are absolutely right on one point.. No concessions!

[WilliVonBill]

Aye, let them come. Just as long as everyone is civil. Us and them.

The bottom line is that we're the most public about our attitudes towards IL2 mods... that gives the die-hards some one to point fingers at. Really doesn't matter that we are fervently anti-cheat. Some of the die-hards seem to actually believe there is an active conspiracy to "kill online IL2".

Sad really. The only thing thats going to kill online IL2 is BoB-SOW. Bigger/better always trumps.

Let them rant and rave. We can stand by what we and the mods here have stated over an over. Any who wish to drop by and see for themselves are welcome. IMHO.

Me? I have no problem with a statement about what this site is all about. It's pretty obvious by reading the posts... but not unusual to see "statements of purpose" or whatever you want to call it at other forums. Usually its just a stickyed post about the ground rules of posting at the site.

[msalama]

or we are still the best choice to hate regarding cheating

Barking up a wrong tree there m8, because I most definitely don't hate anyone. Granted, when I first heard of the mods coming out my immediate thought was "yeah, OK, that's us onliners well fucked" and I did express my thoughts accordingly - and yes, I remember you and me clashing over this thing a bit back then too! But I've given all this some more thought now, and thus realize it's actually a complex problem with no simple answers whatsover we're talking about here... and hence my questioning, because you guys KNOW about all things mod and I don't!

And mind you, I'm not blaming your community of anything. I mean, why should I? I've lurked around for a week or two now, so it's not as if I didn't know what's going on!

So relax m8, I'm not after your cojones here

PS. The ideas you listed sound good, and thus I of course have no problems with them whatsoever

PPS. Mods - if you think discussing this here is not appropriate, then please just say so and I'll get me coat without further ado.

[Forager]

I agree that all debate on either side of the coin has to be civil.. But I totaly disagree that we have to put up a 'statement of intent'..
Who cares what people think on other sites.. and we shouldn't have to explain ourselves on our own forums.
Everyone that uses this site knows what we are about.. and it's nothing to do with cheating.
If we have to be seen to be 'justifying ourselves' something has gone terribly wrong..

Trooper, no one is saying we "have to" put up a statement of intent.

We are just discussing the possible benefits of such a step.

And, respectfully, this statement: "Who cares what people think on other sites.. and we shouldn't have to explain ourselves on our own forums.", only serves to reinforce those with negative opinions and may put off some who are not quite sure how to view what many here are trying to accomplish.

I realize this is a controversial topic that could quickly get derailed and appreciate the restraint shown so far.

[msalama]

I realize this is a controversial topic that could quickly get derailed and appreciate the restraint shown so far.

+1

And just so that everyone understands my position: you guys are allright in my book, so I'm not here to raise any fights or any BS like that. It's just that these things have to be thought trough at some point anyway, so why not start right now? _IF_ this is the right forum, that is...

[fly_zo]

or we are still the best choice to hate regarding cheating

Barking up a wrong tree there m8, because I most definitely don't hate anyone. Granted, when I first heard of the mods coming out my immediate thought was "yeah, OK, that's us onliners well fucked" and I did express my thoughts accordingly - and yes, I remember you and me clashing over this thing a bit back then too! But I've given all this some more thought now, and thus realize it's actually a complex problem with no simple answers whatsover we're talking about here... and hence my questioning, because you guys KNOW about all things mod and I don't!

And mind you, I'm not blaming your community of anything. I mean, why should I? I've lurked around for a week or two now, so it's not as if I didn't know what's going on!

So relax m8, I'm not after your cojones here

PS. The ideas you listed sound good, and thus I of course have no problems with them whatsoever

PPS. Mods - if you think discussing this here is not appropriate, then please just say so and I'll get me coat without further ado.

... glad to hear my cajones are safe and with the rest of what you wrote i have no probs

[Username]

I agree with your post mate.. But I have an account at ubi, and at simhq, and I have de-camped here as well.. Do you really want that??..lol! :lol:
I think all forums wherever are going through the mill over this issue..
my take on this has always been, 'let them come'.. as long as they behave and don't bring their attitudes with them, well, with a bit of coaxing they may come around..
But you are absolutely right on one point.. No concessions!

Lol - I also have accounts at those places!

However, I'm sure you know what I mean regarding the Ubi board. This place is a haven of politeness, positivity and enthusiasm - I want to keep it that way.

[334th_Prince_BK]

Here is what I would like to know. When 4.09 patch does come out and IF it disables your mods will you try to hack the 4.09 and mod it? Because my opinion is this. Why not leave the people that don't want mods have the 4.09 patch left clean and you guys keep your 4.08 version and your Mods. This way you create a bridge of trust between the two. For those of you that don't know me I created the il2league.com Which is a IL2 league. I have to admit this website and these mods have made me lose alot of money and time that it took me to create something that squads could enjoy. Squad leaders have asked me "How could I be sure that all the squads are not cheating or adding files that don't belong" and my answer to them was I can't. Because they named Hippy by name and this website they dropped out of the league. Their reason was that they didn't want put time and effort into something they may not be legit. I don't believe in Mods, nor does the 334th squad. We already are in the process of changing our maps and taking all AI planes. I would love to sit here and say that what your doing is none of my business but it is. I have Corp sponsorships and was in the process of doubling the leagues size by having Open and Locked pit divisions. I was also in the process of working out a deal with Warclouds to purchase 4 servers for this league. I don't charge any squads to compete and all the costs come out of my pocket but with squads dropping out due to trust issues how could I in good conscience pay out of my pocket for something that people wont trust? Is it your fault that the Mods are out? The answer is Yes & No. Wasy & hippy and whoever else they work with didn't invent the hack but they used it to provide these mods. So my question stands. If the 4.09 patch disables your mods will you try and find the hack tool and mod it as you have done with 4.08?
As you can see I am here in good faith.

[Fisneaky]

Prince,

Sorry to hear the league is catching the fallout from the general paranoia.

I think if anything all the stuff going on here is helping keep things from turning into total chaos.
News of the cracked sfs files is OLD news:-

http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?t=...7b74ae3ff2

That post is from over a year and a half ago.

I would say from what I've seen that the people here are strongly anti FM/DM tampering and I for one can vouch for that. Admin here are on point.

How to deal with the doubters is everyones problem, but if there are cheats out there they don't originate here. If there are squads that will allow cheating they are sure to be found out one way or another. Easy enough to check with a track of the match. The server has control of the planeset so the AI flyables aren't an issue anyway.

just my 2p - lets hope we can build some trust between the two camps.

As far as 4.09 goes, maybe things would not have come to this had it been released when expected (BoB too)

[WilliVonBill]

Prince, you might want to pop over to UbiZoo and take a peek at this thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 3681066995

Looks like the onliners over there are finally starting to get over the initial "The Sky Is Falling" knee jerk reaction and are starting to look for solutions that will restore some degree of comfort to them. I sincerely hope they work out something so they can go back to enjoying this fine sim.

Oh, and IMHO, I have no doubt that 4.09 will be cracked eventually. Genie's out of the bottle and all the wishing in the world can't turn back time. Just glad to see some of the ostriches pulling their heads out of the sand and looking for constructive alternatives.

[Jump_Pilot]

"Inaction will get you killed, at least make a decision to do something, even if its wrong."

We lived by that in the Army and in aviation. A statement of intent, code of conduct or whatever you want to call it can only help matters. I keep hearing people here saying Us, Them. Saying things like that just further splits the community. It wouldn't hurt to have something up saying that anything containing mod'd FM's and/or DM's will not be accepted or tolerated. If you don't make certain things available to read, then how can you expect ANYONE to know what this place is about. Humans are not mind readers.

[Guest]

My take on this: this site seems to consist largely of former/current Ubi members - most of whom were keen to discuss the possibilities of the mod with others - this turned out to be impossible on the Ubi forums due to the instantaneous flaming attacks/bans. We needed a place where we could discuss these things in relative peace, and here we are. We seem to be mainly a group who would like to see how much more we can do with IL2 within the boundaries of the game engine - we want more flyables - hell, I want 'em all flyable! ....but we do stand on a cliff edge with regards cheating/changing FM/DM's, etc. It's just one small step away, and we should acknowledge that, and hence I think some form of code/intent would only be a good thing, albeit really just paying lip-service. It'll only take one person, who can be linked to this site as having cheated, and that will bring us all into disrepute. This much we need to accept, and do our best to prevent.
Honestly, I think it's only a matter of time before some twat goes and figures out how to change FM's, etc, and then goes on a virtual joyride/killing spree. Can we stop this? prob'ly not. Can we do our best to discourage this? I hope so...at least, at the moment, it is actively discouraged, and I think that's about the best we can do for now...
I was a bit disappointed at some of the initial responses to BearCat's visit here, guys, believe me, he is one of the few who really has the sim's best interest at heart, and is prepared to check out both sides of the story without having a go at anyone. He's one of the more level-headed moderators over at Ubi, and deserved a bit more respect, IMHO.
No crying over spilt milk, I think he's still checking things out here, and realises that he was the victim of a knee-jerk reaction. He is one of the good guys, maybe one of the few who could help 'us' and 'them' to find some peaceful solution to this debate. And yes, saying us and them is wrong. I am one of us and one of them, so it's still 'we', I guess.
For years, the Ubi forum has been like a second home to me, but over recent months it has taken a bit of a turn for the worse. That, I largely blame Ubi and even Oleg for. No updates or patches is one thing. Not a SINGLE comment regards development, schedules, release dates, etc. is another. ABSOLUTE SILENCE is the worst, and the current situation can be directly accrued to this. I'm not saying they OWE us anything, but this is what happens when you start something, and then just leave it hanging...
Anyway, enough from me for now. Let's hope we can find some happy solution to this whole debate...
cheers m8's

[fly_zo]

typical reaction at the ZOO

LEBillfish:

"Hi All;

Have to say once again for an entirely new reson I'm put-off by the "modder" community, most of all those that LEAD IT and are the core group....

On their forum, Brain 32 asked more then politely that Warclouds NOT be listed as a "mod friendly server".....In response the mod communities leadership begins taunting as to "how would you know"...and in short blatantly suggesting that "so what, sit there and police your server as you have been generous/foolish enough to not set crt=2 yet 1 to allow for other OS to play....and though the mod is costing players is justified as it is bringing some back".

How outrageous!.....A long standing member of the community that has generously supplied a very well used service is quite simply treated rudely though he was respectful and polite, basically told "tough, get used to it".

STILL warclouds is listed......This response from the hackers in and of itself quite simply IMLTHO the attitude and response they are presenting to the community as a whole......Basically "scr*w you, your problem not ours though we make the problem".

Shameful, and quite simply how they consider all of you........Naw mon, na respect, ims aint na lions, ims butu bait.... Angry"

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... nuff said .... no peace !!!

Z

[msalama]

:?