[Mysticpuma]

Ok, here is the an image I created of Art Fiedler's 5th kill, and the subject of the History Channel's "No room for error".

Although some like to see war as quantifiable, which in hindsight is easier to do, at the time the enemy was there to be destroyed.

Like the B-17's shot down before this encounter, each pilot decided what their objective was, and generally it was to destroy the pilot,crew and plane of each aircraft. Many pilots have said that they destroyed the plane, but when they saw the pilot bail out, that is when the human factor became apparent.

Art Fiedler barrel rolled away from the 190 in the picture which was baring down on him, and then positioned himself to destroy the enemy. He succeeded and the plane plunged into a hillside below.

He then found a smoking plane, a 109, which after a wingman ran out of ammunition, he destroyed too.

Why was the 109 smoking, maybe it had just show down a B-17 killing all aboard, maybe he had been shot at by a pilot in a parachute who he had fired upon. It's all subjective, but the result is that people die in war, and Art was in the war.

So, with that in mind for all the people who sit in their homes and decide to edit history to suite their own propaganda and agenda, here is the picture:



I hope you like the art, even if you don't agree with the incident.

Cheers, MP.

[Shooter]

Lovely Image mate, most excellent use of area and 2d depth of field simulation, very effective and well executed image, very smooth.

Great stuff mate wohoo :wink:

Regards Shooter

[Guest]

Hey,nice composition.

But in reallity,it didn't looked like that.The fight was very low at the deck.
From your picture,i have the feeling that the fight is going on at 7k m...

More Here and Here.
But for me,this guy is a cold blood killer...You see how he killed the pilot of the wounded 109...They could 've go on his wing and to show him to bail... Not to shoot him... :x

[Shooter]

Isnt that a FW 190? What ya mean Gringo? I dont see the stricken FWs pilot in this pic, unless thats the chap bottom left with a failed chute deployment?

War is Hell & its participants knowingly gamble in the Lottery of Life created by it.

Woah that sounds a bit profound, like someone famous said it.... heh

[Mysticpuma]

"
But in reallity,it didn't looked like that.The fight was very low at the deck.
From your picture,i have the feeling that the fight is going on at 7k m... Smile "

Actually, it is low on the deck, but if you look up into the sky at 11.15am in the morning, you'll see the sky, and not the ground in the picture. Use a telephoto lens, and at 200mm focal length the compression is the same as shown, and a 200mm lens from the deck would fill the image at an altitude of 500ft, which if I was flying would be low on the deck!

The 109 he is talking about FBS is the second kill of the day. Now as FBS pointed out, war is hell, and to be honest, 64-years later it's easy to judge what happened, however Gringo I know you enjoy fishing, so go find another lake!

Cheers, MP

[Guest]

Hey hey hey...I like fishing,but not your fav type of fishing .

Some of the USA ( and many other pilots from other nationality's) pilots said,that the aerial combat was between machine vs machine.And the goal of the aerial was/is to destroy all your enemy's aerial and ground equipement,and not to kill a pilot,a collegue,who's doing the same as the american pilot did here...Following the orders of his chiefs.

So in here,if some of the germans pilots killed with such a cold blood,one of those two american pilots,maybe you were about to call the CIA to find him,bring him in USA,and to judge him to death. :lol: Am i right?

Yes the war i hell,but should you kill a human being?
Did the execution of this german pilot helped to the allies to win the war?

I guess no,right...?

There were so many possibility's to destroy this 109,and to get his precious 5fth kill,without the loss of a human life.

[Monguse]

Mystic,


The more I view it, the more I like it.

[Skunkmeister]

But for me,this guy is a cold blood killer...You see how he killed the pilot of the wounded 109...They could 've go on his wing and to show him to bail... Not to shoot him... :x

You are being waaaaaaaaaaaay too harsh man. If you had even bothered to watch the last minute of the second video you posted, you can actually tell that Fiedler is a man who has feelings and even deep regret of watching someone die from his guns. Cold blooded killers do not experience regret.

You are right on the "equipment" thing, but its only because of a pilots perception. At the speeds and distances these guy's shot at, never once was killing other human beings the first things on their minds.

You seriously need to reshape your way of thinking, either that or develop some more comprehension skills.

[Monguse]

@Gringo,

I did not answer you before because I was taken aback to your synopsis of a man in a situation where it was either he or you and possibly one of your friends. I'm also shocked that you would say that of a person you do not know.

Remember others where placed in the same position on both sides in that war and many have been placed in the same position in other wars and current wars.

[Guest]

Yes guys,noone can aim only for the plane at 700 km/h.Anyone is shooting at the first possibility.
There were many pilots killed instantly in aerial combat.

But note aerial combat! This wasn't aerial combat at all...!

Skunkmeister,yes so...I can go in your house,kill you,and then say to the judge and the TV/press: "I regret that i killed him,i'm not a cold blood killer".

That german pilot wasn't from my familly,my country,or a friend of mine...

All i'm against is,and accuse Fiedler is,that there were many other ways of shooting down that 109.

I don't think that you was about to be on the side (actually anyone) of Fiedler,if you were the pilot,bouncing on the rocks with 600 km/h!

Am i right?

Try to see everything through the eyes of that poor german pilot that bounced with 600 km/h on the rocks,and then if he was still in consciousness,he was about to die in the worst pain ever -> burned alive in the crashside of his own plane,and you'll see why i'm accusing Fiedler!

[Th!rdeye]

I agree that was a horrible way to die, but would you let a enemy plane that is just smoking get away? What if he makes it home and comes back with the same repaired plane and shoots down 2 bombers full of people? When you could have saved them all by shooting him down. Yes like others have said war is hell. The german could have pulled up and then jumped out. They were going fast enough to make a nice zoom climb to get enough alt to have the chute open.


Fiedler could have pulled up next to him and told him to bail, but what if the german would have taken advantage of that and pulled back, shot Fiedler, then bailed out or go home? Would you take that chance?

Also when that pilot jumped out at that speed, he would have died almost instantly. That dogfights animation made it seem like he was alive after the first bounce. He would have been a rag doll already dead from the first bounce.

And Fiedler also regreds that decision to shoot him. At the time there was no time to think of that stuff. They were on the deck, going over 300mph, in a valley during a war.

[Skunkmeister]

All i'm against is,and accuse Fiedler is,that there were many other ways of shooting down that 109.

My god...can you type out something that makes sense? Many other ways of shooting down that 109...HOW? The guy only had machine guns on his plane. How did you want him to shoot him down? Crap in his flight suit then open the canopy and fling a turd at him?

Yes the german pilot lost his life. He was one of many. But I really dont understand what the hell you are trying to get at. I'll go get a list of all the german pilots who shot down inferior or wounded aircraft and call them cold blooded killers. Hell, every single pilot that's claimed a victory over another plane I'll call a cold blooded killer. Ah just for the fun of it, every infantryman that's shot a round or thrown a grenade too. :roll:

[Guest]

Don't mess the infantry.Their buisness is to KILL!So yes,they can kill,no matter how they do it.

The airforce is the ELIT man!I guess you know what "elit" means?
To go there you have to pass 1 year of training.
In the infantry....2 month is way too long!

For the airforce you must be a rock,100% pure strenght.Do you know what is to feel positive 4 G's?!
Cos i know,and to tell you...Your stomach with all your blood is going in your feets!

I don't thing that you'll be able to hold to positive 9 G's!

So don't mess the airforce with the infantry!In the infantry always were,and will be the...let's call them "downgraded" persons and even ciminals!


So...I'm not against the killing in aerial battle in the airforce.I'm against the way that this guy got killed.

This happened in '44 (or '45),in those years,Germany was in deep troubles...Running out of supplies of any kind.Included aluminium and all sorts of other metals.

So do you think that this 109 was about to be repaired immediately,as it was about to happen in '41,'42,'43?
Or was it ever going to reach it's home base?
I guess that you know what a black smoke comming out of a plane means,but let me tell you:

1-A heavy black smoke means,that there is already a fire inside the engine,which will explode any moment.Just as it happens in the IL-2.If you stay fast,the air circulation will kepp the fire off,but when you slow down...Oooo Gee...You will light like a fire thrower.

2-Just as it happened with Marseille.That's why all DB's got downgraded and set at 1.3 ATA,not 1.43!
I guess again,that you know what was the failure of the 109 G-2's engine,of Marseille erupted in flammes,and led to his death.

After '43 (or '44,not sure),all DB engines were set back again at 1.43 ATA,which is partial/a large danger.

So don't tell me that this 109 was about to make it back to HB,then repaired,and then back in the air to kill allies.

And if you're curious why this pilot bailed immediately,after the 109 catched fire,it's because:

Pilot law no.1:

If your plane is on fire,bail out immediately!Because every second that passes,can be your last!
The fire can trace the fuel line,and reach the fuel tank,and then... "Big balls of fire".This will happen for less than a second with this high octane fuel!

Pilot law no.2:

Your live is more important then your plane!


And those rulles are used even today!

My sister is avionic in Lufthansa Technik and have friends in the Air Force,so i'm pretty good informed.Thanks to her,i know what it is to feel 4 G's.

[rigamortiz]

Can you show us the pic, and not continue this arguement?

[RAF_Magpie]

Sorry had to delete it due to new AAA rule:

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Unfortunately I like my work to be 'MY WORK', sorry, MP.

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