[AJD-NZ]

First of all caldrail, the subject of this thread is shooting down betty's with a Hurricane MkIIb, using this sim, it is not about you or your assumptions (young man indeed !).
:wink:

Thats the trouble with us Brits. We do rise to challenges

But essentially the issue with convergence in this thread is how best to exploit that feature, which is not entirely realistic in its application. Some might agree, others won't. IL2 is a game and the methods of conducting operations within are not exactly as complex or historical as it was in the 1940's. After all, you decide what aircraft you fly, what weapons it carries, what mission it flies on. There's no risk of official punishment for unfortunate disgressions or mistakes, and generally speaking, very little command structure impinging on the players activities. Thats not an assumption, it's the difference between strapping in to an aeroplane going to war and clicking on an icon on your desktop safe in your own home.

With reference to shooting down betty's with .303's, they are big tragets, albeit vulnerable ones. I tend to target engines - I don't know about other peoples preferences. An engine fire will often cause a bomber to drop its bombs prematurely or the crew to bail out.

Now... Strictly speaking this is a little cowardly and I don't usually do this, but since this is a game and we all want an advantage to play from... When attacking bombers, stand off and wait for someone else to close in. The bombers gunners will focus their fire on him. Then go in and target at will with lesser risk of enemy fire.

Fair suck of the sav ! good on ya cobber, sounds like ya plucked up the courage, flew up & gave those Betty's a good snotting :!:
Now imagine me as one of the crew in a Betty & you might also be tempted to shoot them in their parachutes
If you think that was too easy, download "The Battle of Britain, moving DF" that I uploaded, because although they're not Betty's its still good practice.
Just for the record, my mother who was 10 or 11yrs old at the time, told me she used to watch the Dogfights over London. My father (who was from Farnborough, Hant's), lied about his age, joined up & was in north Africa, when he was 17yrs old. Then later, in the bomb squad in London & with the invasion forces at Normandy & occupation of Germany.
As far as sitting at a desk & clicking an icon goes, my 30yr old son, who works as a graphic designer & is a self confessed computer nerd. Shot a deer last week & carried it out of rugged bush country, for over a kilometre, on his own. hock:


My father passed away in 1995, but these are some of his badges from that time.


By the way "Moggy" I think I made it quite clear that I was not going down that road :wink:

[AJD-NZ]

I think the main difference between using a computer simulator & a real war is that in a real war, whether it be Army, Navy or Air force, you only die once ! You do not have the luxury of re spawning or re flying, so it can never be "Full real" for that reason alone, never mind the lack of G forces, the smell of oil & the very real sensation of flight etc. But it is because we don't get killed & can re-fly, we have the opportunity to exploit this luxury & take risks & try tactics, we would never even contemplate, if we had to pay the ultimate penalty. It is probably for those reasons, that there are many of us who play this wonderful flight sim, who do own & or fly real aircraft. Unfortunately there will always be people who have lost, or lose touch with reality & react or treat this experience as if their lives really did depended on it.
So it doesn't matter if you die, you will get a new life, a new aircraft & you can have another go. So start your engine(Hurricane MkIIb), take off, get some altitude & shoot down those damned Betty's. :wink:

:lol: :lol:

[Radoye]

I think the main difference between using a computer simulator & a real war is that in a real war, whether it be Army, Navy or Air force, you only die once ! You do not have the luxury of re spawning or re flying, so it can never be "Full real" for that reason alone, never mind the lack of G forces, the smell of oil & the very real sensation of flight etc. But it is because we don't get killed & can re-fly, we have the opportunity to exploit this luxury & take risks & try tactics, we would never even contemplate, if we had to pay the ultimate penalty.

Exactly.

And not only that, there's no risk of real physical pain when gaming. For me, the possibility of a debilitating injury - like loss of limb or something like that - seems even more scary than quick death. Not to mention the idea of being stuck in a cockpit of a burning plane or in a tank about to brew up, there are so many ways to die a truly gruesome death in war, and sometimes even if you survive it could be a faith more cruel than death.

When in real war you are constantly aware of such possibilities and it does influence the way you act. It is not cowardice, it is just plain human nature. Only fools have no fear, but they don't last long in real war. All the while when playing war on the computer there are no real consequences for foolish actions - the only thing that can get injured is your ego.

Therefore no matter how detailed the simulator (or a FPS game) is, it is nothing like real war, nowhere near.

[AJD-NZ]

Whilst I agree with you, my main point is, that instead of pouring scorn on the lack of realism using a flight simulator, we should be celebrating the positive aspects. For instance, in a couple of days, caldrail has gone from "Not everyone can get that close." & "That's ok, it will work, provided you get close", to, "With reference to shooting down betty's with .303's, they are big tragets, albeit vulnerable ones." ! The reality is, flight simulators are a big part of pilot training these days, one can only imagine the tactic's that would have been developed, if WWII fighter pilots had access to this technology ! :wink:

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

// Hello, Mango, this is Peanuts Leader, attacking now, Tally Ho, Tally Ho!
// Good luck, Peanuts Leader
// Red two, this is Red Leader, cover my tail!
// Roger, Red Leader
// Red Leader, there's a hun on my tail!
// You sure, Red Two?
// Yes, it says "Bf 109 White 3" in blue just above it!
// Press 'W', engage the emergency boost!
// Oh God! Help me, the aircraft's on fire!
// Bail out, Red Two, bail out!
// I can't remember how!
// Ctrl E, Ctrl E!! Shut off the engine, press 'i'!


Sorry, couldn't resist it. But if WW2 fighter pilots had stuff like this, i 'spect the aircraft they'd've been flying would have been rather different accordingly

[AJD-NZ]

:lol: :lol:

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

we established pretty much immediately that .303's can indeed down a betty. We've been floating in and about the realms of OT for rather a while, y'know.

But I have been trying very hard not to stray off subject

Whilst I agree with you, my main point is, that instead of pouring scorn on the lack of realism using a flight simulator, we should be celebrating the positive aspects.

does not have anything at all to do with .303's and the damage they can inflict on a betty. Basically, we should've tryed to stray back on topic a while ago. :wink: