[Aymar_Mauri]

To be fair to Oleg , his A4 is a derated one that is representative of the majority of 190 A4 that fought in Eastern front in 1942 (mostly used as Jabo )

But he admitted himself a few years ago on former Ubi oleg's ready room that the real A4 fighter version that was used for instance against the British in 42-43 should be similar to the ingame A5 in term of performances, so i understand your point mate.

To be fair to history, it's not just that. If it was only the fact that it was a derated eastern front jabo it would be ok.

But what we have with all of Oleg's Antons (or more accuratelly with the BMW 801) is a more serious problem. It's the kommandogerat that does not work correctly by optimizing propeller pitch, engine mix and response, as well as the engine acceleration factor in the FM data.

This causes the abysmal acceleration we have in all Antons. As far as we know from historical data, the BMW 801 should provide one of the best instant responses and initial accelerations of all the engines in the game, but we see the exact opposite. IIRC, the Merlin engines have an acceleration factor of 0.7 while the BMW 801 and Pratt & Witney R-2800 have one of 0.4.

I firmly believe that unless it's an inverselly proportional scale (the lower the factor the higher the acceleration) these values are wrong. And it makes no sense calling an inverselly proportional scale factor an "acceleration factor". If this was the case, it should be called an "inertial factor", reflecting the inability for an engine to change it's state (rpm wise).

Also it would be great if when we take load out " 2 MG-151 only " ( i think it's called "U1" ) we really get a lighter aircraft with different FM , cause it doesn't seem to be the case in game currently , cheers mate

I agree.

......and stock A4 is not so bad if you use manual pitch....

But that is preciselly the point. Using manual propeller pitch is grossly inacurate for the 190 and 109. The kommandogerat's purpose was to regulate the engine faster and better than a pilot could to allow optimal performance, with the added benefit of reducing the pilot's workload for him to concentrate more intensivelly in the combat mission.

[I/JG27_Waggel]

Ok. I have some very intresting informations.

There were a-series 190 with Gm1 mixture but they were just a view. Those models should create the B series. But this series never went into production.

In the end of 1942 the BMW 801 D was developed. The A-4 made 565 km/h at SL. In early 1943 this engine went to the A-5. It had the same power like in the A-4 but the motor was pushed forward and some other stuff. In mid 1943 there was an update in the BMW 801 D. I do not mean the C3 injection. BMW wanted to make a new generation of radial engines like the TS

BMW for example developed the 801 E from the D with 1470 KW (2000 HP) with same capacity. This was reached by an aerodynamic refinement of the loader, a number of revolutions increase and a increased load printing (1.62 bar up to 5 min long) during take-off power. The engine could hold to 5650 m height an output of 1710 HP and its "Volldruckh

[Test Pilot]

[quote="I/JG27_Waggel"]Ok. I have some very intresting informations.

There were a-series 190 with Gm1 mixture but they were just a view. Those models should create the B series. But this series never went into production.

In the end of 1942 the BMW 801 D was developed. The A-4 made 565 km/h at SL. In early 1943 this engine went to the A-5. It had the same power like in the A-4 but the motor was pushed forward and some other stuff. In mid 1943 there was an update in the BMW 801 D. I do not mean the C3 injection. BMW wanted to make a new generation of radial engines like the TS

BMW for example developed the 801 E from the D with 1470 KW (2000 HP) with same capacity. This was reached by an aerodynamic refinement of the loader, a number of revolutions increase and a increased load printing (1.62 bar up to 5 min long) during take-off power. The engine could hold to 5650 m height an output of 1710 HP and its "Volldruckh

[I/JG27_Waggel]

Fw 190 A-3 ( 1.35 until may 1942 Ata 2450 RPM)
0km - ~540 km/h
6.4km - 655 km/h

Fw 190 A-3 ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM) - without outer wing cannon MG FF
0km - 560 km/h
6.4km - 665 km/h


Fw 190 A-4 early ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM)
0km - ~560 km/h
6.4km - 665 km/h

Fw 190 A-4 late ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM) - manualy operated colling slots
0km - ~560-565 km/h
6.4km - 665-670 km/h

Fw 190 A-5 ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM) - manualy colling slots, longer nose
0km - 567 km/h
6.3km - 670 km/h

Fw 190 A-5 jabo ( 1.65 Ata 2700 RPM) - C3 injection only in 1th gear
0km - 580 km/h
6.3km - 670 km/h

Fw 190 A-6 ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM)
0km - 563 km/h
6.3km - 650 km/h

Thats what we have investigated

[Test Pilot]

Fw 190 A-3 ( 1.35 until may 1942 Ata 2450 RPM)
0km - ~540 km/h
6.4km - 655 km/h

Fw 190 A-3 ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM) - without outer wing cannon MG FF
0km - 560 km/h
6.4km - 665 km/h


Fw 190 A-4 early ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM)
0km - ~560 km/h
6.4km - 665 km/h

Fw 190 A-4 late ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM) - manualy operated colling slots
0km - ~560-565 km/h
6.4km - 665-670 km/h

Fw 190 A-5 ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM) - manualy colling slots, longer nose
0km - 567 km/h
6.3km - 670 km/h

Fw 190 A-5 jabo ( 1.65 Ata 2700 RPM) - C3 injection only in 1th gear
0km - 580 km/h
6.3km - 670 km/h

Fw 190 A-6 ( 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM)
0km - 563 km/h
6.3km - 650 km/h

Thats what we have investigated

I really can agree beacuse i cant find any German or other evidence for it.

The only evidence which i found - i mean scan German, British and USA documents mostly are here:

Fw 190 A-3

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ ... 190a3.html

Fw 190 A-4

Only USA document

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ ... r-1107.pdf

Fw 190 A-5/ A-6

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ ... 190a5.html


These documents really dont confirm Your investigated. Maby You have better evidence or German documents - i really would to see them, i'm interesinting in these because i also working with Fw 190 in Il2.

[I/JG27_Waggel]

Your posted data for the A-3 for example is the turkish version Fw-190Aa-3. This version is not equal to the main german A-3.

The US document compars an A-4/U4 fighterbomber with US fighters in early 1944. You do not know the working time of the 190 frame and engine. The main production of the A-4 was between summer 1942 and early 1943.

The A-5/A-6 document is nearly what we have in our sources.


Collecting the performance data took many time and money to buy handbooks, technical books, papers from archives and museums. Concluding from this we are not determined to pass these data to third hands.

[Test Pilot]

Your posted data for the A-3 for example is the turkish version Fw-190Aa-3. This version is not equal to the main german A-3.

The US document compars an A-4/U4 fighterbomber with US fighters in early 1944. You do not know the working time of the 190 frame and engine. The main production of the A-4 was between summer 1942 and early 1943.

The A-5/A-6 document is nearly what we have in our sources.


Collecting the performance data took many time and money to buy handbooks, technical books, papers from archives and museums. Concluding from this we are not determined to pass these data to third hands.

Ad. Fw 190 A-3

Yes these charts shown Fw 190 Aa-3 export version for Turkish. These planes have only little difference with non export version: "The Turkish aircraft had the same armament as the A-1: four 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns and two 20 mm MG FF cannon. There was no FuG 25 IFF device in the radio equipment".

Engine was the same BMW 801 D-2 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM so these version was even lighter then German beacuse no radio and lighter armament.

These planes reach:
0km - 540 km/h
6.4km - 660 km/h



Also Fw 190 A-3 German version without outwing cannos was litlle faster at 20 km/h at sea level and 5 km/h at full throttle height:

0 km - 560 km/h
6.4 km - 665 km/h




Moreover Faber Fw 190 A-3 which landed in UK in very good condtion with derated engine - 1.35 Ata, 2450 RPM was much more slowier then these above.

So i really expect that German Fw 190 A-3 with full rated engine 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM was just little slowier then Fw 190 Aa-3 ( export version) and Derated A-3 was much more slowier beacuse only 1.35 Ata and 2450 RMP. These all confirm data which i present above and RAF 190 A-3 Faber test.


Ad. A-4

Fw 190 A-4 initialy had nealy no difference with A-3 beside radio antena. The engine was the same, performance also was the same.

Late Fw 190 A-4 had manually operated colling slots - so thats way these verion could be some faster then early version with fixed slots. These was the only difference - still engine was the same with the same power.


With all respect i really dont expect that You have more detalied or different German data for Fw 190 A-3 and A-4. I have many technical books, handbooks ( German, UK and others) and really there are not so detalied information and data as in these data which i show. I really dont belive in Your "top secret" data above these which are avialable in internet.

[Test Pilot]

Your posted data for the A-3 for example is the turkish version Fw-190Aa-3. This version is not equal to the main german A-3.

The US document compars an A-4/U4 fighterbomber with US fighters in early 1944. You do not know the working time of the 190 frame and engine. The main production of the A-4 was between summer 1942 and early 1943.

The A-5/A-6 document is nearly what we have in our sources.


Collecting the performance data took many time and money to buy handbooks, technical books, papers from archives and museums. Concluding from this we are not determined to pass these data to third hands.

Ad. Fw 190 A-3

Yes these charts shown Fw 190 Aa-3 export version for Turkish. These planes have only little difference with non export version: "The Turkish aircraft had the same armament as the A-1: four 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns and two 20 mm MG FF cannon. There was no FuG 25 IFF device in the radio equipment".

Engine was the same BMW 801 D-2 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM so these version was even lighter then German beacuse no radio and lighter armament.

These planes reach:
0km - 540 km/h
6.4km - 660 km/h



Also Fw 190 A-3 German version without outwing cannos was litlle faster at 20 km/h at sea level and 5 km/h at full throttle height:

0 km - 560 km/h
6.4 km - 665 km/h




Moreover Faber Fw 190 A-3 which landed in UK in very good condtion with derated engine - 1.35 Ata, 2450 RPM was much more slowier then these above.

So i really expect that German Fw 190 A-3 with full rated engine 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM was just little slowier then Fw 190 Aa-3 ( export version) and Derated A-3 was much more slowier beacuse only 1.35 Ata and 2450 RMP. These all confirm data which i present above and RAF 190 A-3 Faber test.


Ad. A-4

Fw 190 A-4 initialy had nealy no difference with A-3 beside radio antena. The engine was the same, performance also was the same.

Late Fw 190 A-4 had manually operated colling slots - so thats way these verion could be some faster then early version with fixed slots. These was the only difference - still engine was the same with the same power.


With all respect i really dont expect that You have more detalied or different German data for Fw 190 A-3 and A-4. I have many technical books, handbooks ( German, UK and others) and really there are not so detalied information and data as in these data which i show. I really dont belive in Your "top secret" data above these which are avialable in internet.

So these graph really ilustrated performance of Fw 190 A-3 and also is adequate for A-4 early

[I/JG27_Waggel]

We have more details and we know the differences in the motor setups.

The top speed on SL can not grow from 540 km/h up to 560 km/h just because you have radiator flaps. If you have ever seen the radiators flaps of the Fw-190 and you have a little bit knowlege of aerodynamics you will see that the jump from 540 up to 560 km/h is something different.

An ETC 501, the bomb rack of a Fw 190 for exampel reduces the top speed up to 10-13 km/h. Compared with the radiator flaps the bomb rack is directly in he wind. So why should the flaps have an effect that reduces the top speed nearly 10 km/h more?

In early 1942 the BMW 801-D2 was derated and the A-3 made 540 km/h on SL. With the raise of the loading pressure in Summer 1942 upt to 1.42 ata the A-3 made 560 km/h on SL. The top speed of 565-567 Km/h on SL is a result of the updated BMW 801D-2 in summer 1943.

[Test Pilot]

We have more details and we know the differences in the motor setups.

The top speed on SL can not grow from 540 km/h up to 560 km/h just because you have radiator flaps. If you have ever seen the radiators flaps of the Fw-190 and you have a little bit knowlege of aerodynamics you will see that the jump from 540 up to 560 km/h is something different.

An ETC 501, the bomb rack of a Fw 190 for exampel reduces the top speed up to 10-13 km/h. Compared with the radiator flaps the bomb rack is directly in he wind. So why should the flaps have an effect that reduces the top speed nearly 10 km/h more?

In early 1942 the BMW 801-D2 was derated and the A-3 made 540 km/h on SL. With the raise of the loading pressure in Summer 1942 upt to 1.42 ata the A-3 made 560 km/h on SL. The top speed of 565-567 Km/h on SL is a result of the updated BMW 801D-2 in summer 1943.

Still i cant see any info about motor update. From 1942 till 1943 BMW 801 D-2 got 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM only upgrade which is known is C3 injection which rise bost pressure for 1.65 Ata and have major inpact in speed at sea level. See also Fw 190 A-8 - there is still the same motor with 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM and some of these version use C3 injection ( which was upgrade for H blower also) or MW 50.

Initialy Fw 190 A-3 had derated engine for 1.35 Ata 2450 RMP. You could compare Fw 190 Aa-3 data at steigt und kamp. :

0km - 520 km/h
5,7 km - 630 km/h
7 km - 620 km/h

And these should be performance of derated Fw 190 A-3 version. These confirm RAF test of Faber derated Fw 190 A-3 ( with very good condition) which reach even little worse results.

Really i didnt saw any confirmation that Fw 190 A-4 reach 560 km/h even with manually operated colling slots. So it could be also just 550 km/h comparing to Fw 190 A-3 with fixed slots with only 10 km/h incrase. The only reliable data which i found was for Fw 190 A-5 and A-6 with 1.42 Ata 2700 RPM

A-5
0km - 567 km/h
6.3 km - 656km/h

A-6
0km - 565 km/h
6,3km- 651 km/h



Still there is a question what really casue speed incrased in Fw 190 A-5 comparing to A-3/A-4 early. I suppose these could be colling slots and longer airframe - it is possible that they reached ~25 km/h incrase using the same engine settings ( still 1.42 Ata , 2700 RPM)

German manual of Fw 190 A-5 state:




Start und Notle. - 1.42 Ata 2700 RMP
0km - 560 km/h
6.3 - 660 km/h

Steig und Kamp - 1.32 Ata 2400 RMP
0km - 530 km/h
5.9 km - 634 km/h

These really are close for Fw 190 Aa-3 ( export version) data and could explain rise of speed due to longer airframe and manualy cooling slots in A5. Remember that at higher atlitutde drag is lees then lower that why could be not much difference in speed at high altitudes.

[Test Pilot]

Also here is Faustunik graph from Fw 190 forum "Complete Waste of Space" which really confirm my interpretation: