[WIP] Doolittle modified B-25s
#1

As Most know, it is just about impossible to make a plausable takeoff using the current bombers. It is complete, except for the needed redesign of the FM(The only 3d work was removing the strafing gun from the Nose.) If someone wants to work on this aswell, I would be much ablidged. What would need to be done for the FM is to make the aircraft feel lighter taking off, increase the fuel, decrease the fuel consumption rate, and limit the bomb load to 3x 500LB and 1x Incendary package. Also to decrease the armor. This is just one of the many things Im trying to work on, so, while it may seem kinda crappy, its just a small little thing that I thought might make the game more intresting.
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#2

Well, I have a book written by C. Ross Greening, the man who created the "Mark Twain" bombsight used in that raid. I may be able to give you some info from it. The "Mark Twain" shouldn't be too hard to replicate. Also, it says that they removed the tail guns and replaced them with black broomsticks, and the broomsticks were bigger in diameter than the .50 cal. brownings. I was thinking maybe replace the two .50s in the tail with 2 20mm cannons, minus the ammo. The broomsticks could still train enemy planes. It might also be possible to make a skin for every plane that flew on this mission. On another note, the "Mark Twain" was later attached to the Norden's mount, so the bombsight tracking could work (though the bombadiere still had to release the bombs). If you would like to get a copy of the book, it is called Not As Briefed . It is in paperback, and contains his entire account of pre-war training, the Dolittle Raid, North Africa, Italy, being shot down over Vesuvius, POW in Italy, escape and hiding, recapture, POW in Germany, the escape plots of POWs, his arts and crafts, and finally liberation by the Russians and return home. He was at Stalag 1, with Hub Zemke and one of the guards was Max Schmelling.

I recall reading from that book that over Japan he and his crew encountered a rather German looking fighter, and it was the first American encounter with a Ki-61. His plane was nicknamed "The Hari-Karier".

Greening's account of the "Mark Twain":

"According to the plan we envisioned, we needed to bomb targets from an extremely low altitud. Our planes, however, were equipped with the Norden bombsight, which was designed to operate efficiently at 4000 feet or higher. The Norden could be used at lower altitudes, but not with its automatic features. Furthermore, it lost its effectiveness below 4000 feet during the extreme maneuvering of a short bomb run. It was expensive too, costing over $10,000 each, and was highly classified. We didn't want to risk having it fall into Japanse hands.

As a result, I decided that we needed a substitute. As the mission's armament officer, I set about designing a new bombsight specifically for this mission, one that could be effective at altitudes of 100 to 1,500 feet. Sgt. Edwin Bain, my assistant technician, and I gave this problem a lot of thought. We obtained scrap Dural aluminum. First we made drawings and then at the shop cut a 7" x 7" quadrangle to install on the Norden mount. We inscribe a 90-degree arc facing forward with markings 10 degrees apart. On this quadrangle we fixed a vertical 5 1/4" x 7 1/4" piece of aluminum. This had a rounded top and it pivoted horizontally on the quadrangle plate. There needed to be a pointer to work with so that a relative directional bearing could be obtained. Thus, in the upper rear quadrant of the upright piece, we marked off another 90-degree arc so we could get an up-and-down slant angle. The attached sighting bar on this vertical plate was a piece of right angle aluminum with a simple V notch for the rear sight, and a pointed front sight that would fill the V just like a rifle sight-a crude one.

Sgt. Bain and I thought it would work, but because it was so simple we couldn't be sure. All the bombadier had to do was pivot the horizontal plane and tell the pilot on the intercom how many degrees right or left to steer to line up on the target. The gun sight, of course, was aimed from the bombadier's window at the front of the plane.

Later, we made improvments by connecting the gunsight to the remaining linkages that served the Norden sight. This permitted a bombadier to give course directions to a pilot through the PDI (Pilot Direction Indicator) instrument without relying on voice communication. The turning of the sight either left or right by means of a handle would deflect the PDI needle to the right or left, directing the pilot to follow the perscribed heading. With a B-25 on an attack course, all the bombadier needed to know was the plane's speed and altitude to set the verticle angle of the gun sight. When the target came into his lined-up bead, the bombadier prepared to "pickle off" his bombs.

All a bombadier did next was set a dropping angle taken from a sieries of tables fastened to the Norden bombsight base. It was a double drift attachment hooked onto the base, which permitted us to determine proper dropping angles for any sized bomb, at any altitude, in any wind conditions, and at any ground speed. This was all computed automatically once the wind speed was known. A bombadier only needed to set the dropping angle on the verticle plate, then aim the bombsight in the direction of the target just like he would a gun. As the airplane flew to the target, of course, he would have to raise the tail of the sight to keep it on the target. As it contacted the stop or dropping angle on the vertical plate, the bombadier released a bomb, generally with good results."


It was later calculated that the materials for these sights cost a total of 20 cents.
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#3

flexibel_Kampfe Wrote:As Most know, it is just about impossible to make a plausable takeoff using the current bombers. It is complete, except for the needed redesign of the FM(The only 3d work was removing the strafing gun from the Nose.) If someone wants to work on this aswell, I would be much ablidged. What would need to be done for the FM is to make the aircraft feel lighter taking off, increase the fuel, decrease the fuel consumption rate, and limit the bomb load to 3x 500LB and 1x Incendary package. Also to decrease the armor. This is just one of the many things Im trying to work on, so, while it may seem kinda crappy, its just a small little thing that I thought might make the game more intresting.


i have succesfully taken off from a moving carrier in a b25c (the first model) fully loaded, so (just a suggestion) u should just download the b25c (this is probably in the all unflyable aircrafts mod) but, i was just saying, im not trying to be mean or anything, i will still probably download this when it is done, wish i could help, but i dont have any mod making skills or anything.
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#4

I've been sitting on a Doolittle Raid campaign setup for awhile now. It'd be great to have a customized B-25 for it.

But don't forget the two wooden sticks in the tail!
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#5

lol, it will kinda suck if u put the broomsticks in the tail guns then some fighters come along


p.s: i made a doolittle-type mission on the Kyushu map, but it somehow got deleted b4 i could publish it to the site Sad
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#6

All you need is a little wind, and with the carrier heading into it at 30 kts, it's a piece of cake! :wink:
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#7

I think some of you are missing the point...... Some people like to make missions that have authentic aircraft models.... so please, do not begin to critique my reasons for the creation, just except it. This kind of commentary is not what these WIP threads are for...they are for those that actually post realivent material....
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#8

yes, i know, i was just saying
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#9

snaphance Wrote:Norden - It was expensive too, costing over $10,000 each, and was highly classified. We didn't want to risk having it fall into Japanse hands.

........

As the mission's armament officer, I set about designing a new bombsight specifically for this mission, one that could be effective at altitudes of 100 to 1,500 feet.

........

It was later calculated that the materials for these sights cost a total of 20 cents.

That just made my day. It seems certain things never change with time, LOL
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#10

just out of curiosity, when will these be done? is there an estimated date? i'm really looking forward to them.
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#11

Im just waiting on Mongoose.
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#12

what is mongoose doing? 3dmodels?
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#13

Interesting ...

Let me do some research and itemize the changes required to create a very Doolitle B25. Remember these were basically un armed B25 except for the bombs and a 'custom' sight , all for the purpose of one mission. To be historically correct we would have to have a carrier that would allow the user spawning correctly.

As mentioned, I'll do a bit of research.
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#14

ok, thanks for the info

again, i'm really looking forward to these

p.s: anybody know of a map for the correct location of the doolittle bombing? the closest i've got is kyushu, and the only city i know there is nagasaki, didnt they bomb tokyo? if so, where is a tokyo map?
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#15

RedrumSalad Wrote:ok, thanks for the info

again, i'm really looking forward to these

p.s: anybody know of a map for the correct location of the doolittle bombing? the closest i've got is kyushu, and the only city i know there is nagasaki, didnt they bomb tokyo? if so, where is a tokyo map?

The Raiders bombed Tokyo, Yokohama, Nagoya, and Kobe. My campaign will follow the exploits of TNT, the only bomber to attack Kobe. I'll probably use the Kyushu map, as it looks to be the closest default map. I haven't seen a Tokyo map yet, which is surprising.

Looking forward to this guys. I guess I'll have to release two versions, modded and unmodded.
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