[56RAF_Kernow]

http://il2ultrapack.net46.net/index.php ... 15240.html

The link is to a reply I made to Crash's 'open letter' on the UP forums. As it deals with Spit I/II/Va and 109E-1/3 FMs - which I assume were first released here? - I thought it only fair to make mention of it in these forums.

A very quick summary would be: UP2.0 seems to have altered (some of) the FMs and, IMO, for the better when viewed against similar stock FMs.

[RedChico]

I'm sorry to say this but an opinion is not a fact.
In relation to german planes "this camp" (AAA) has already some individuals with access to factory documents.



I wonder what would it take for everybody to agree on FM's/DM's.

[RedChico]

Ok i've found this post where it perfectly explain the state of modding in IL2

Its called WAG.

There are guys doing FM and DM mods out there that have never fired a weapon, never flown an airplane and cant tell the difference between an R-2800 and a Bull Moose's ass.

They have a friend whose Dad knows a pilot and they saw Pearl Harbor 4 times so they are qualified.

(Don't be offended unless the above description applies to you, if it does then by all means...)

[baronbutcher]

I wonder if this is correct in either camp claims. Both claim correct! :? Probably the facts are either one is totally better than another. :!: I mean some video doco's (not IL2 stuff - I mean whats shown on TV, History Channel stuff etc.) can't get facts correct. :roll: For example: I seen claims that G3M nells and G4M Bettys attacked Pearl Harbour :oops:, Junkers Ju 88 top speed at 250 mph, P-39 Aircobra best US fighter of WW2, Spitfires Mk 9's in the Battle of Britain, Hellcats at Midway 1942 etc. etc.. So much for research by some so called History experts. I seen some very good docos but I also seen ones that are atrocious. Also because someone has access documents etc. doesn't mean they get it right all the time. I seen a German pilot in a doco who flew a He 111 in the war who claims it was a better and safer aircraft than the Junkers Ju88! Many others wouldn't agree with that. You see one viewing that would get the impression that the JU88 wasn't very good and dangerous to fly compared to the He111 which isn't correct. (By the way I like the He111) :roll: Even here At AA A people get some facts totally wrong. If one has time or access to: read Osprey books for example (a good source of info) plus a variety of history books, view various doco's, here feedback to get a picture of what is or what isn't. I mean on YOUTUBE some of the claims and prejudice this is better than that etc. for example: Spit Mk 1 vs Bf109 E etc. The fact is the Spit had certain edge on the Me 109 E and the Bf109E had advantages over the Spit. I like the Ki44 shoki (not one of my favourites but like to see it appear). but some of the claims what it was or can do by some! I have a book on the Ki44 and read other sources WIlliam Green is good. It was a average fighter - the 40mm canon version was not very efffective for its range was very poor with a low rate of fire. Against B-29 getting close to be effective with these weapons was almost suicide. The ki44 had some vices - it was just a average mid war fighter. Against P40, B24 etc. but P47, P51 B29 thats a different story. Just wanted to make a point. No offence to anyone.

[56RAF_Kernow]

:roll: My point isn't that one is right or wrong. The only opinion I gave was qualified:

'...IMO, for the better when viewed against similar stock FMs'

which doesn't mean either need be 'right' or 'wrong' in any absolute sense.

Most people would probably agree that Oleg & team did a pretty good job in the first place, with access to a great deal of information and better knowledge of the game engine than anyone. Any mod released for the game ought to be compatible with it, so why do the 109E-3 and Spit Va not turn anything like the stock E-4 & Vb?

Maybe these are isolated FM issues. They're just the first ones I've looked at.

[RedChico]

:roll: My point isn't that one is right or wrong. The only opinion I gave was qualified:

'...IMO, for the better when viewed against similar stock FMs'

which doesn't mean either need be 'right' or 'wrong' in any absolute sense.

Most people would probably agree that Oleg & team did a pretty good job in the first place, with access to a great deal of information and better knowledge of the game engine than anyone. Any mod released for the game ought to be compatible with it, so why do the 109E-3 and Spit Va not turn anything like the stock E-4 & Vb?

Maybe these are isolated FM issues. They're just the first ones I've looked at.

But "better" what? Don't you see?
Better.... with that word you already saying its more "right" than something else.
Thats why I posted the quote from UP forums, it represents the majority of us.

[56RAF_Kernow]

Never mind what I think, Chico. Having looked at the graphs, which 109E-3 mod FM do you think looks like it's related to the stock, 'Oleg world' 109E-4 in terms of turn peformance and which looks like another aircraft type?

Tater, understand that PoV entirely. I don't know how other FM differences compare - this is just the area I've noticed - and I wouldn't advocate one set of mods over another based on a couple of FMs. I'm just a little disappointed - now that I have the ability to check - to find that very similar versions of certain ac have distinctly different characteristics depending on whether they have stock or mod FMs - especially as the mod FM could have been left as per the near-equivalent stock version and still been quite acceptable. I had thought that mod FMs went through some sort of quality control before release with major mod packs to make sure they would fit in with the stock game. My mistake. I hope this is just an isolated case or 2, but a quick look at some other results isn't encouraging