[European Snake]

Would you mind shrinking your charts a bit? I can't make heads or tails of them at that size.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Would you mind shrinking your charts a bit? I can't make heads or tails of them at that size.

Just hold down your ctrl key and spin your mouse wheel to zoom in and out

[Freddy]

Ace , some ideas :
first : the first problem is your are from the beginning talking again and again about the roc , but you have forgotten a FM is not only the roc .... A wrong roc is a problem , yes , but if the roc is correct and all the rest is wrong it s a big problem for your FM ....
Second : I understand you have make tests with the first mod ( Corea 1.1 ) and it s hard for you to make new tests with the new mod ( 1.3 ), but if you want to talk , you ll have to do that , and with honnesty , cause all your results from the first 1.1 mod are totaly wrong with the 1.3 ...
Third : the curves you are claiming as correct ( understand same as a real F-86 ) about your mod ( understand the hsfx default F-86) are clearly not the same we can find when we fly the plane in the simulator ... I m not alone to have found some strange things with the FM in HSFX and UP packs , all the FM for all the planes have changed , and these changes are very important for the jets , making them totaly wrong .... Can you see you can make all the curves you want with your programm , in the simulator it s not what we can find ...
Why ? Somewhere in the tweaked java class , there is a big mistake ....
The result is , and I ll not repeat that again and again , cause the test is very easy to do , the result is my F-86 have lower performances than yours and it s exactly the opposite of what your curves say ... And especialy the roc ...
You can notice that this message is very polite , but I don t want to repeat again and again the same things .... As said before I m not alone to have found all of that , and please remember that :

It's Great to have the MiG-15 into this but the FM is very wrong.. it need correction

Just tested the F86.. C'mon please you got to fix this.. insanely bad..

Simple, I flew in MiG15, 17 Yak9's etc.. in RL ..

From a real Mig15 pilot ....
And he s talking here about your F-86 , not mine .... About mine , you are free to ask him what he think ( I know the answer ...)
You have to know , he have worked with Oleg and worked too in some important projects with other simulators .... :wink:

You are free to ignore the real test from real pilots and to keep just your curves , but the result is not very good ....
At last , you are free to not agree with me , but I d just like you stop spaming this thread , I ve never gone in others threads about F-86 mods to spam their work ...

[ojcar]

Now I have read the complete thing (a very hard work).
I have two questions to Freddy:

-All jet FMs are affected by the java error, including stock ones? If so Your mod fix this error and fix stock jets FMs?

-I appreciate the hard work, but I'm not interested in the new start up and bail out procedures and reticles on-off and this affects all game planes. On the other hand, a Corea mod (I'm from Spain, so is Corea for me), seems very interesting. Would you mind to keep all the advanced procedures as selectable options in next releases of your mod? Thank you.

[European Snake]

Would you mind shrinking your charts a bit? I can't make heads or tails of them at that size.

Just hold down your ctrl key and spin your mouse wheel to zoom in and out

I would, but my scroll wheel is broken. I need a new mouse, I know.

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

bottom right of the ie8 screen, for me there's a zoom button.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Freddy, some ideas on your ideas:
First: I can not tell you how happy I am to hear you admit you were wrong about ZINFOMOD results! It takes a big man to admit he made a mistake and I can admire that. I'm just glad I was able to help you come to this realization by providing the track files from a real fly test that collaborated the ZINFOMOD results, and thus proved ZINFOMOD takes into account the Java changes you made. Granted, it took you a little longer than most, but that is neither here nor there, all that really maters is that you now understand how useful the ZINFOMOD by SJack is in identifying errors in the flight model.
Second: With that behind us now we can move forward and work together to obtain the most realistic flight models possible. But at the same time we have to remember we will not always agree on everything!
Take the importance of the rate of climb for example. You said that I have forgotten that there is more things to a flight model than the rate of climb, on the contrary, I am well aware of all the things that make up a flight model, and being aware of all those things realize that the rate of climb is one of the most, if not the most, important aspect of the flight model when it comes to the performance of the plane. Anyone that if familiar with the modern energy methods of aircraft performance analysis knows that excess power is the key to predicting an aircraft's performance, and the rate of climb is the WWII method of getting a feel for the excess power of a plane.
Also take the importance of pilot quotes, you put alot of value in what 'a' pilot has to say. Ill say this about pilots, in general, there is a good reason that aerospace engineers, like myself, took/take the time to install instruments to record the performance parameters of a plane. Simply put pilots make terrible measuring devices. Which is not a ding on pilots as much as a realization of the limitations of human in general. Humans simply can not be calibrated well enough to obtain accurate and/or repeatable results wrt aircraft performance. Let alone the fact that if you have 10 different pilots fly the same plane the same way that you will end up with 10 different stories. In short, for every pilot you can find that says it 'feels right' there is another pilot out there that will say it 'feels wrong'.
Third: You made references to the HSFX F-86 as 'my mod', I can not take any credit for that mod! That mod was done by PeterD and Lt.Wolf!

viewtopic.php?t=21363&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120



As you can see, all I did for them is the same thing I did for you! I did a real fly test that showed their MiG15 rate of climb was too large (60m/s instead of 50m/s) which was later confirmed by ZINFOMOD.

So, using your line of reasoning 'your mod' would be 'my mod' too!

Anyway, I am glad to see your coming around and I am looking forward to working with you in the future.

S!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I would, but my scroll wheel is broken. I need a new mouse, I know.

Gee sorry bout your bad luck.. I just hope you understand that I am not going to spend any of my time resizing all my graphs for one guy with one broken mouse. But I can give you another option, assuming you didn't have any luck with Moggys sugestion. Simply right click on the picture, DL to your PC, open it up in a paint program, and rezise it to your liking. In that is what I would have to do for you, why not you just do it for yourself?

[Freddy]

All jet FMs are affected by the java error, including stock ones? If so Your mod fix this error and fix stock jets FMs

Yes , the fix is for all the planes ... But the jets from other mods don t work with the Corea 1.3 , if you try this , you ll have bugs ... Because I ve not written the java class for them , it s not my work ...

I appreciate the hard work, but I'm not interested in the new start up and bail out procedures and reticles on-off and this affects all game planes

I understand , but the basic game is not my goal , I ve said my only goal is to be exactly at the same position as a real pilot , so I ll don t remove these features and I ll add others in the future ( weapon selector , fuel tanks selectors ...etc ...etc ... ) I ll don t make another mod with these advanced procedures as selectable options cause in my mind , it s necessary in a real flight simulator ...

To Ace ,
Actualy I m not working on the FM , I m making the final and real cockpit for the MiG15
But Ok , if you want , you can make some tests ...
Not with IL2 compare please ... It makes too much errors ...
Test please the F-86A IN GAME ( the 1.3 ... forget 1.1 ) , and see what happens ... :wink: I ll see too if my java class appears in this test with your program ...

[Monguse]

Ecellent, can't wait for the results.

Thanks for working together.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

To Freddy

I understand your are busy and I await your beautiful cockpit art work!

As for doing a real test instead of using ZINFOMOD (What you call IL2comp)

I already have

A long time ago

Here is the link

Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:55 pm Proof that SJack's zINFOMOD sees Freddy's Java Class changes

Note at that link I provided the TRACK file(s) of each real (manually flown) test (what you call real fly)

And the real test confirmed the rate of clmib 'error' predicted by ZINFOMOD

Which proves the ZINFOMOD by SJack takes into account (read sees) your Java class changes

So, there really is no need to prove this again

But if I find some spare time in the next few weeks I can re-run those tests for you

In that I am busy too at the moment putting the final touches on my REALISM RATING system for all the planes in the game

S!

[Freddy]

I ve seen this test Ace , I know it .... The FM is totaly different with the last mod , this test is not good for the 1.3 mod Corea ...
I ve spend a long time working only on FM with the 1.3 ( The values for FM in the button are the same , not changed this , but you can t find the same result if your program is accurate ...)
I don t want to say the result will be perfect ( I hope but not sure ...) , but the result will be very different if your programm takes the java code in account ...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I didn