[whiskey111]

Possible in theory I think, because when we have an altitude differentiation among particular section of bombers we can't set them a proper speed to keep "formation". After several minutes our formation is stretching.
I was trying to keep them together by setting "target" option and lock other bombers for the group as a target. But it doesn't work properly, especially when one of the formation is going down.

"Formation mod" could be a great upgrade for our missions

[8FS_Bulau]

If you don't understand the need for such a mod, you probably have never tried to make formations larger than 4 aircraft in FMB that fly together as one formation. Currently, you can only have maximum of 4x aircraft which fly together, no matter the changes in course or altitude...it is part of the AI coding. You can lay out waypoint for two such flights of 4x, for a total of 8x, but the two flights will not fly together as a unit. As soon as you introduce a course change, the two flights begin to deviate, and may even crash into each other.

A flight of 8x or 12x or 16x aircraft is not a computer performance issue, and to suggest that as a reason there isn't such a mod means that you may not understand what the real problem is. The problem is there is no AI coding which keeps a flight of more than 4x flying together. In other words, the problem is NOT the NUMBER of aircraft, but rather getting them to fly together as a SINGLE formation.

There is a real need for such a mod, and I think that any seasoned mission builder would agree.

[Fireskull]

Ok, so how you are making combat box formation for B-17 or other bombers and keep them together in turning waypoints ?

Whiskey, my pal

Turns can be simulated by having the outside bomber flight (in a formation turn) be the lead at mission start. When a 180 degree turn is completed (or series of turns equalling 180 degrees), then that bomber flight will be at the end. The bomber flight which was at the end of the formation at mission start will be in the lead after completing the 180 degree turn(s). Bomber flights will be exchanging positions in similar fashion to lesser amounts according to how close they are to the center of the formation. If a flight of bombers is placed in the center of the formation at the beginning of mission, then that flight will remain in the center position at the completion of a 180 degree turn or series of turns totalling 180 degrees.

This is generally the simplest way to make a bomber formation complete a turn. It is relatively easy to set waypoints and the bombers will remain in formation throughout the flight path. You can have them make two 90 degree turns equalling 180 degrees ( 2 x 90 = 180 degrees). Three turns of 60 degrees ( 3 x 60 = 180 degrees ) looks most realistic to me.

With magnification of the map in Full Mission Builder, I can place a typical formation of 18, 24, 27, 36, or 48 bombers in less than 1/2 hour, complete with entire flight path. Full Mission builder allows the customizability that a mod for bomber formation probably would not. The performance of IL-2 and number of bombers as a result would be much better, too.

A mod for bomber formations would be performance compatible with the most expensive graphics cards in a few years.

Ask Team Daidalos to create one and ask for the advantages and disadvantages. I'm sure that they would consider it but I expect a reject for the reason which I give.

Storm of War would be great for a bomber formation feature because it will take the newest generation of graphics cards to run it at highest configuration. Those cards in a couple or three years will handle a bomber formation application.


I wish you well in your quest for full bomber formation in one fell setting of waypoints. Only with persistence would it come to reality. Are you willing to lobby for it that long? :wink:

[Fireskull]

If you don't understand the need for such a mod, you probably have never tried to make formations larger than 4 aircraft in FMB that fly together as one formation. Currently, you can only have maximum of 4x aircraft which fly together, no matter the changes in course or altitude...it is part of the AI coding. You can lay out waypoint for two such flights of 4x, for a total of 8x, but the two flights will not fly together as a unit. As soon as you introduce a course change, the two flights begin to deviate, and may even crash into each other.

A flight of 8x or 12x or 16x aircraft is not a computer performance issue, and to suggest that as a reason there isn't such a mod means that you may not understand what the real problem is. The problem is there is no AI coding which keeps a flight of more than 4x flying together. In other words, the problem is NOT the NUMBER of aircraft, but rather getting them to fly together as a SINGLE formation.

There is a real need for such a mod, and I think that any seasoned mission builder would agree.

Pal,

I understand the mission builder's need for such a mod. However, reality can not be avoided.

I've set bombers in formations from 12 to 48: Many times. I know it is tricky, but once learned it can be done in under 1/2 hour. Please read my above post on that.

Performance of IL-2 is a HUGE consideration in placing many bombers, as Davis and I made clear. Adding a bomber formation mod to the many mods that already push IL-2 to the limits is VERY relevant. Added to this is the fact that the bombers themselves, even without mods, are pushing IL-2 to the limits of performance.

As I stated in the previous post, in a few years hardware will open the door to this.

Until then, I wish you well in your pursuit of a bomber formation mod.

[whiskey111]

Can you link me one of your mission where is this kind of formation ?
I would be glad if I could take a look of this
Thanks for the explanation about game limits. I didn't have idea about this.

[Fireskull]

Can you link me one of your mission where is this kind of formation ?
I would be glad if I could take a look of this
Thanks for the explanation about game limits. I didn't have idea about this.

Whiskey,

I am very busy today. Sometime in the near future, I will post screen captures of IL-2 bomber formation techniques for the Full Mission Builder. I will include instructions-a kind of tutorial topic.

However, I will place my Bomber Formation topic in the Forum called IL-2 Skins, Missions, and Campaigns DISCUSSION. You will know when it is ready in the next few days by my posting the link to it here.

There is a slim opportunity that I will complete it today if I work ahead of schedule.

[Guest]

Actually I disagree about game-limits; having a mod to have bigger formations would save fps. Think about it. When multiple waypoints are set for large formations, the game has to take each into account and then program each one individually. When each formation gets attacked, the game has to program the reactions for each waypoint. If you look on the other hand, one huge formation with a single waypoint would be better on fps, because the came only takes the one waypoint into consideration.

[Fireskull]

Actually I disagree about game-limits; having a mod to have bigger formations would save fps. Think about it. When multiple waypoints are set for large formations, the game has to take each into account and then program each one individually. When each formation gets attacked, the game has to program the reactions for each waypoint. If you look on the other hand, one huge formation with a single waypoint would be better on fps, because the came only takes the one waypoint into consideration.

My good friend, in my humble opinion, this would have happened through Maddox Games, Team Daidalos, or another third party by now if this is the situation. I am absolutely sure that this issue has been well examined by a bunch of people over the last 9 years of this simulation. Certainly Oleg Maddox himself considered it.

I wish that I am proven wrong.

[Guest]

I hope you're wrong m8 :lol:

It could be something that's been overlooked; until this thread I hadn't really thought of this

[whiskey111]

Maybe it could be a good alternative solution to check that kind of mod in action and see what will happen truly. Unfortunately I'm not a modder so I can't do this

Maybe it could be a right way to modify "escort" option (means: setting aircrafts as a target for another aircrafts on waypoints) somehow, not changing the number of airplanes in flight ? Maybe there is someone to try this ?

I have another idea: why not to make a mod which could generate waypoints for other flights to simulate a huge formation ? If DCG is able to create this kind of formation why not to copy and overwright the script which is making this ?

[Trooper117]

I build lots of my own missions and mini campaigns.. the only way to ensure Bomber formations stay together is to have minimal waypoints to target, and they are only to change altitude (must be done gradualy), preferable to have all bombers at set altitudes at the mission start anyway..
To have most of your formation bombing in some sort of coherant way, do not introduce a turn waypoint until after your bombers have run onto target and released bombs.
After your aircraft have bombed make any turn waypoint a gradual affair.. any sharp turn and you will loose all coherance in your formation.. It's basicaly a trade off between historical accuracy and the limitations of the game.. not ideal but its a 'bodge job' to get some sort of control.
And yes, the mod that whiskey is asking for would make a whole deal of difference to mission makers when embroiled with the fmb.. but I'm not sure if it would be possible. That said, before modding came along, there were many ideas and requests that were asked for on the offiial forums that we were told was an impossibility, yet we now have them in game, so who knows eh?

[Longjap]

Arr, that's a pity i was lookin for such a mod.. To build bigger formations is such a pain. A box shaped bomber-formation in just one click would be awesome!

[Sean2323]

DCG already spawns more planes then any computer (even the most extream gaming pc) can run. The IL-2 programming is not made for such large formations. If you can run a 150 to 200 plane mission then you have a $2000 pc, and it still wont run smoothly. Your just going to have to face it, this is the best this game is going to get. Thats why we are all waiting for SOW to get here. IL-2 has been pushed so far the it doesn't even resemble the original game. For massive bomber fights, load DCG set to Full on the # of flights and I bet you can't run the normandy campain. Is spawns in with like 30 bombers and 30 fighters just for the allied side. I have a quad core with SLI 260's and its hard for me to play. Unless you have a i7 extream w/ quad 480gtx's, dont even bother making missions with that many planes. Remember, it's not really the pc anymore, we have hit the limit of the IL-2 program.

well... there is a method i used on a game called "supreme commander", you have to edit some file, so any game can handle more things, something to do with ram, it works on all my other games, you could have 1000s of units at once, i guess if it would work with this game you could have close to 100 planes... until it slows and, crashes, like ur plane would from the lag!