[Beowolff]

[quote="caldrail"]It does, but how would you stop spray getting into the engines? Jet seaplanes normally mount engines in protected locations for that very reason - above high wings for instance.

quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QowTqmxYZ1Q

look at the seaplane in the water...and how low in the water it is. comparatively speaking the jets on my what-if sea craft are even much higher so i can't see any more spray getting into them than on the Sea Master there. besides most of the spray is 'behind' the craft...coming from the rear of the floats.

but regardless it's only a fantasy aircraft for fun. nothing more...certainly nothing less.

:wink:

[caldrail]

Please note the intakes in the video are sheltered by the wings high mounted leading edge. Also, the axial rotation of the Seamaster does not greatly lower the intake height whereas on your DC3 project, where the jets are mounted further out, the pods have a much greater radius of movement and thus lower themselves dangerously. Seawater might not stop a radial engine - it will cause a flame out. on a jet (which incidentially I happen to knopw was a primary concern for the designers of the Seamaster). Also you need to realise that spray is not limited to the rear of the aeroplane - a wonderful demonstration can be seen in that Peter O'toole movie where he flies a Grumman floatplane in a private war against a rogue U-boat.

[Beowolff]

Please note the intakes in the video are sheltered by the wings high mounted leading edge. Also, the axial rotation of the Seamaster does not greatly lower the intake height whereas on your DC3 project, where the jets are mounted further out, the pods have a much greater radius of movement and thus lower themselves dangerously. Seawater might not stop a radial engine - it will cause a flame out. on a jet (which incidentially I happen to knopw was a primary concern for the designers of the Seamaster). Also you need to realise that spray is not limited to the rear of the aeroplane - a wonderful demonstration can be seen in that Peter O'toole movie where he flies a Grumman floatplane in a private war against a rogue U-boat.

what part of "but regardless it's only a fantasy aircraft for fun. nothing more...certainly nothing less" did you miss? :-?

now I remember why I don't particularly like you... I had forgotten, but it has become crystal clear all over again. i dis-remembered your degrees in oceanography and aerodynamic design coupled with your years of outstanding 'hands on' experience in real life aircraft construction and flight. :roll:

thanks for the reminder.

at any rate we should just let you make all the mods and then at least 'you would' be happy with them, eh?

well, thank your lucky stars that IL2 doesn't model the spray correctly...then if you flameout in my DC3 (EXPERIMENTAL) float jet, it'll only be because you've tried it in your own bathtub rather than in the game.

don't worry, i'll specifically say in the readme that YOU don't think my mod will be air/sea worthy. certainly that will prevent anyone from using it as they all know what an expert you are on the subject but hey i want to be upfront with everyone so they won't get a bum steer.

will that do for starters, or should i sacrifice a lamb?

[caldrail]

Woah... Did I stand on a sore point? Mate, listen up, if you want to build this thing and upload it go ahead. No-one's stopping you. However, even with fantasy aeroplanes, physics is still physics and if my well intended but poorly received criticism helps others produce better results, I think that's worth while. After all, my own efforts at real world design got nowhere, and with good reason, because at the time I simply didn't know enough about materials, structures, mathematics, or the intricacies of aeroplane engineering. I probably still don't. That's why I don't call myself an expert. Seriously, compared to the criticism I have to put with from day to day, my comments are nothing.

[Beowolff]

I've had my fill of guys over the years that simply 'know it all'... they've unfortunately been the bane of IL2, from beginning to even now. this sim seems to attract them like flies to honey, with each and every one being the same ole same and each one forgetting that at the end of it... it's just a game and that's all it ever was supposed to be.

just like this mod they turn a 'fun' thing into a race for one-upmanship... and such is, nor ever has been needed.

I've watched hundreds of eager, ready to tackle modding kids start out with the gleam in their eyes to try to mod only to become bogged down by rivet counters and 'i know better' types... and sadly, eventually give up modding or give up the game altogether.

everyday we have many guys that fade into the woodwork and quietly disappear from the game forever... and it's always more that vanish than it is new guys coming 'in' to the game. sure, some of it is real life getting in the way. some of it is personal things. some of it is a lack of time. some of it is frustration. and then a lot of it is and always has been the 'look at me' syndrome this game has always attracted.

now if a person doing a mod says in the open that...i intend to build the most possible accurate perfect plane this game engine can handle, then sure, spot on advice and picky information/comments might be okay. but when things are meant to be FUN, that's a totally different story.

the thing is the 'know better' guys never get the FUN thing. they're too worried about letting others know how smart they are and miss the point completely.

aw frig it. just forget it. you won't get what i'm talking about anyway. it's useless for me to flap my gums over it.

[caldrail]

As someone who was never encouraged or supported in modding (and one who not been credited for some of the work I did), I can agree with your view, but at the same time, speaking as someone accused of being a 'know-all', I would point out that my personal status is not the point (at least as far as I'm concerned). What matters is understanding and education.

As it happens, I would recommend you get seriously involved in the entertainment industry. You will quickly discover how cruel and heartless peoples opinions can be. And how powerless you are to avoid them. And how insidiously powerful some peoples opinions are. What happens on this webiste is a walk in the park in comparison.

in nay event I only made observances. What I could have done was suggest the changes I would have made. You know what? I'm going to. Not because I'm an expert or want the world to know how clever I am, but because it'll do you some good to realise that your pet project isn't necessarily going to please everyone else.

So, here goes. I would place the engines on the top surface of the wing in blended cowls with the front edge recessed but still close to the leading edge. As the aeroplane is a jet and ought to exploit the performance potential, I would want to get rid of those complex draggy float structures and replace them with central float/outriggers with streamlined pylons. To avoid flutter at high speeds, the outriggers would need more substantial pylons than you normal see.

You do whatever you want.

[EoW_WhamO_CO]

Post WWII, the "new" USAF put a jet in the rear end of a B-24. slap some floats on and you've got the makings of an amphibious flying tank.

[madcat]

What about taking the PBY/PBN and replace the piston engines with turboprop / jet engines?

Had a look round the net to see if a PBY had been converted turboprops but did find any thing, but I did come across this; http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=5042

Patrol Reconnaissance Airplane, Single Float

[Beowolff]

As someone who was never encouraged or supported in modding (and one who not been credited for some of the work I did), I can agree with your view, but at the same time, speaking as someone accused of being a 'know-all', I would point out that my personal status is not the point (at least as far as I'm concerned). What matters is understanding and education.

As it happens, I would recommend you get seriously involved in the entertainment industry. You will quickly discover how cruel and heartless peoples opinions can be. And how powerless you are to avoid them. And how insidiously powerful some peoples opinions are. What happens on this webiste is a walk in the park in comparison.

in nay event I only made observances. What I could have done was suggest the changes I would have made. You know what? I'm going to. Not because I'm an expert or want the world to know how clever I am, but because it'll do you some good to realise that your pet project isn't necessarily going to please everyone else.

So, here goes. I would place the engines on the top surface of the wing in blended cowls with the front edge recessed but still close to the leading edge. As the aeroplane is a jet and ought to exploit the performance potential, I would want to get rid of those complex draggy float structures and replace them with central float/outriggers with streamlined pylons. To avoid flutter at high speeds, the outriggers would need more substantial pylons than you normal see.

You do whatever you want.

you're a know it all, jerk... caldrail, always have been, always will be. you can't help your friggin' self. you love it. you NEED it.

it makes you feel GOOD and SMUG and SUPERIOR.

nobody i know likes you (or needs you) for it. hell, you might be a good guy if you could get past all that crap. but you can't. you won't.

you're one of those that can't (or rather won't) do the work but you can always sure as hell tell others 'how to do it' and 'how WRONG' they're doing it.

what you say or do means nothing to me for i've had to deal with your sort since forever. i've found that the MORE i ignore your type, the BETTER things are all around for everybody.

so that's what i'm going to do...just ignore the holy hell out of you and the day will be sunnier all around. ---maybe even for you.

:mrgreen:

[Beowolff]

What about taking the PBY/PBN and replace the piston engines with turboprop / jet engines?

Had a look round the net to see if a PBY had been converted turboprops but did find any thing, but I did come across this; http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=5042

Patrol Reconnaissance Airplane, Single Float

now THIS, madcat...is actually a good idea. i've not time for it now as i'm finishing up a new build (courtesy of DM here ) but when i get some free time i'll take a look at this proposal of yours. ...unless you want to start it on your own. and if you do and need help, give me a yell over at the FM site.

S!

Beo

[caldrail]

you're a know it all, jerk... caldrail, always have been, always will be. you can't help your friggin' self. you love it. you NEED it.

it makes you feel GOOD and SMUG and SUPERIOR.

nobody i know likes you (or needs you) for it. hell, you might be a good guy if you could get past all that crap. but you can't. you won't.

you're one of those that can't (or rather won't) do the work but you can always sure as hell tell others 'how to do it' and 'how WRONG' they're doing it.

what you say or do means nothing to me for i've had to deal with your sort since forever. i've found that the MORE i ignore your type, the BETTER things are all around for everybody.

so that's what i'm going to do...just ignore the holy hell out of you and the day will be sunnier all around. ---maybe even for you.

Oh good grief, how old are you?
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31/entry ... ws-better/

Be thankful I don't charge cash for all this friendly advice, assistance, and generosity. Perhaps I should. Then I really could feel smug when idiots start moaning because I'm not their best friend. Grow up boy.