26.01.2009, 15:53
certificate,
"..so let me know of any bugs/suggestions/observations!"
Okay, here it goes. Here's a list of AI fixes I proposed I've posted earlier on UBI forums (a very long time ago):
AI related fixes/improvements (maybe not all)
* real tactics for type of plane
e.g. in the early stages of the war for the British (and Russians) quite common to use flights of three in tight V formation while the Germans used the finger four formation which gave them much more room to manouver. Later on, the British also used the finger four formation and formed the so-called big wing formations to attack large bombers formations. Tactics changed during the war. In the early stages of the war the Germans had a clear tactical advantage, but as the war progressed the Allies adopted these tactics and the tactical advantage the Germans had was gone. Flying AI should focus more on maintaning and exploiting energy. The AI is still a lot better at exploiting the capabilities of T&B planes than B&Z ones, because B&Z ones need another AI tactic when it comes to flying.
Often B&Z ones still try to turn with the enemy or let the enemy fighters get too close on their tail. Exceptionally manouverable fighters like e.g. I-16, later Yak versions and LA5/7's have the ability to quickly go over to the defensive and escape, but those that are better suited for B&Z are normally not capable of doing this. Their best defense and attack is speed and this requires AI that better plan their manouvers and exploit the true capabilities of their plane.
It would be great if the AI would have some limited knowledge of the pro's and con's of the type of their own and their opponents plane. Afterall this is one of the key factors that in the end determines flying tactic's. I'm not sure if this implemented in some way into the current AI, but maybe this will allow them to let them execute more effective ACM.
* other AI tactics
One other thing that could be improved is the way friendly fighters fight with eachother to shoot down an opponent. If an element is already engaged, I think the others should keep more distance or should just cover the first element, especially when no other threats are around. Why not fly some 1500 ft. above them so the can cover the first element and are in better position to attack possible others? (maybe some random behavior here would be nice)
* fatigue for human and AI
* heavy breathing due to high G's
* run away tactics (lack of fuel or just scared because outnumbered or inferior plane)
* don't always attack the leading plane
* don't see through clouds
* use clouds for cover
* circle above/around clouds and wait for others to pop up
* don't circle at low altitude above strong defended AAA places
* change altitude and direction when fired upon by AAA
* Ground vectoring
* head on pass by veterans and aces on bombers
* fighter cover that stays with bombers while other attack enemy fighters (if not outnumbered)
* single pass for ace and veterans that do B&Z (do not even try to T&B)
* Ground AI that defends itself (Ships that produce smoke screens, enemy columns split up formation)
* AI that position themselves above and behind you while you try to get a good position for some bombers (i.e. sound tactics)
- takeoff and land in pairs when possible on wide runways
Other AI related stuff:
- AI that can be queried:
* where are you?
* what's your status? (fuel, damage, RTB, engaged, at your six, etc, etc.)
- AI that informs you of relevant facts:
* bandit at your 10 o'clock low;
* enemy column at 1 o'clock, 3 miles;
* wingman reporting to you: 'fuel low, damaged, out of ammo, RTB';
* wingman reporting to you they're attacking their primairy target
- AI that requests (when human flight leader is present):
* permission to attack enemy bandits? (stay in formation, otherwise attack freely but prioritize i.e attack fighters before bombers;
- AI that can be instructed to do things like:
* flight 1: fly 5 miles ahead of us;
* flight 2: increase height to 20000 ft.
* take up position at left/right flank of bombers.
AI/Mission related AI:
- AI that can be give flight orders/tactics before the mission begins:
* only engage enemy fighters (not bombers);
* only attack ground objects in the designated kill zone;
* when primairy objective is reached, attack freely in predesignated secondary zone (or return to formation);
* e.g. escort flight 1 always stays with the bombers and attacks only: 1) if called upon or 2) are attacked themselves or 3) when bombers are directly threatened;
* e.g. escort 2 always stays 5 miles ahead of the bombers;
* all escort flights can attack freely;
Other AI issues/improvements:
* planes that are low on fuel should have priority when landing;
* first group that take took off, should have highest priority to land when several groups try to land at the same time. They've normally been in the air longest;
* extremely slow moving planes like TB3 still cartwheel when trying to get back in formation so I guess there's a bug there;
* each plane model should have a fixed and, I think, very relaxed cruising speed (Maybe this ought to be AI controlled instead of mission editor related);
* A more relaxed way of AI trying to get back into formation is acceptable for me; If you as leader make hard sudden turns, don't expect others to follow immediately. Some distance is quite acceptable and make it more real;
* When low on fuel or damaged -> RTB;
* When out of ammo, stay out of trouble and try to stay near friendly fighters;
* Let planes fly defensive circles to cover eachothers six;
* AI should recognize enemy flak and change formation, altitude or direction (when it's not their target);
* AI escort planes should stay clear of enemy flak when over the target zone (unless bombers are bounced by enemy fighters ofcourse);
* AI planes should avoid flying over occupied enemy airbases when on route (unless given attack or it's their target). Some things can be done in the mission planner, but in the game planes e.g. trying to get still fly over heavy flak defended bases to get back in to formation;
* AI should not see through clouds :-) ;
* AI that use plane with good all around cockpit view (and/or rear view mirrors), should have some SAW advantage;
* AI that fly in big formation should have some SAW advantage (lots of 'friendly' eyes in the sky). Maybe a slightly bigger overall 'SAW bubble' should be used (or smaller bubble for less planes)
* Ace AI should maybe see further than others experience levels;
* AI, when bounced during landing, should put up a fight, run away, hide or scatter;
* AI elements should perhaps sometimes split up earlier when faced with single enemy fighters;
AI that can see/detect and react to certain points of interest, e.g:
- E.g. when AI fighters fly as bomber escorts they see tracers and smoke plumes in the distance and determine to go there.
- AI see's flak, when over friendly territory, and decide "Something's going on over there, must take a look".
- AI that are over enemy territory and detect flak and decide to fly an alternate route to their target, or increase/decrease their alititude;
- AI that automatically reacts to radio call's from or friendly planes that are under threat. Of course only if they are within a short distance, have a free flight role or are involved in the same mission.
- AI that's over enemy ground and recognizes smoke plumes from train's, burning ground objects, dust from ground columns or smokey exhausts and decide it's "interesting, must take a short detour". Ofcourse, only when their mission objective would allow them to do this. If it's a free hunt for jabo's, they must certainly be able to do this.
- AI that react to radio messages from friendly air bases that are under threat. Permitted their role allows them to intercept and only if they are within a short distance.
- AI that 'understand' the difference between an easy and hard ground target. A heavily defended air base is something to be avoided and only permits a single high speed pass. No time to linger above the target for yet another highly dangerous slow speed pass. Just get the hell out of there.
- AI that decides not to attack heavily armoured targets when they no longer have the ammo to do that. If they're out of rocket's or bombs, there's no need to attack some heavy tanks with machine guns. If there are softer targets nearby, target them instead ;-)
- also, the AI currently has very fixed flight patterns when escorting bombers. I would suggest to create a larger set of escort patterns. E.g. one escort flight high, one to the left, one ahead etc, etc. Now all have to placed manually.
Yes, I know a very long list, but maybe it generates some ideas and thoughts on what to fix/improve first.
Regards,
Mark
"..so let me know of any bugs/suggestions/observations!"
Okay, here it goes. Here's a list of AI fixes I proposed I've posted earlier on UBI forums (a very long time ago):
AI related fixes/improvements (maybe not all)
* real tactics for type of plane
e.g. in the early stages of the war for the British (and Russians) quite common to use flights of three in tight V formation while the Germans used the finger four formation which gave them much more room to manouver. Later on, the British also used the finger four formation and formed the so-called big wing formations to attack large bombers formations. Tactics changed during the war. In the early stages of the war the Germans had a clear tactical advantage, but as the war progressed the Allies adopted these tactics and the tactical advantage the Germans had was gone. Flying AI should focus more on maintaning and exploiting energy. The AI is still a lot better at exploiting the capabilities of T&B planes than B&Z ones, because B&Z ones need another AI tactic when it comes to flying.
Often B&Z ones still try to turn with the enemy or let the enemy fighters get too close on their tail. Exceptionally manouverable fighters like e.g. I-16, later Yak versions and LA5/7's have the ability to quickly go over to the defensive and escape, but those that are better suited for B&Z are normally not capable of doing this. Their best defense and attack is speed and this requires AI that better plan their manouvers and exploit the true capabilities of their plane.
It would be great if the AI would have some limited knowledge of the pro's and con's of the type of their own and their opponents plane. Afterall this is one of the key factors that in the end determines flying tactic's. I'm not sure if this implemented in some way into the current AI, but maybe this will allow them to let them execute more effective ACM.
* other AI tactics
One other thing that could be improved is the way friendly fighters fight with eachother to shoot down an opponent. If an element is already engaged, I think the others should keep more distance or should just cover the first element, especially when no other threats are around. Why not fly some 1500 ft. above them so the can cover the first element and are in better position to attack possible others? (maybe some random behavior here would be nice)
* fatigue for human and AI
* heavy breathing due to high G's
* run away tactics (lack of fuel or just scared because outnumbered or inferior plane)
* don't always attack the leading plane
* don't see through clouds
* use clouds for cover
* circle above/around clouds and wait for others to pop up
* don't circle at low altitude above strong defended AAA places
* change altitude and direction when fired upon by AAA
* Ground vectoring
* head on pass by veterans and aces on bombers
* fighter cover that stays with bombers while other attack enemy fighters (if not outnumbered)
* single pass for ace and veterans that do B&Z (do not even try to T&B)
* Ground AI that defends itself (Ships that produce smoke screens, enemy columns split up formation)
* AI that position themselves above and behind you while you try to get a good position for some bombers (i.e. sound tactics)
- takeoff and land in pairs when possible on wide runways
Other AI related stuff:
- AI that can be queried:
* where are you?
* what's your status? (fuel, damage, RTB, engaged, at your six, etc, etc.)
- AI that informs you of relevant facts:
* bandit at your 10 o'clock low;
* enemy column at 1 o'clock, 3 miles;
* wingman reporting to you: 'fuel low, damaged, out of ammo, RTB';
* wingman reporting to you they're attacking their primairy target
- AI that requests (when human flight leader is present):
* permission to attack enemy bandits? (stay in formation, otherwise attack freely but prioritize i.e attack fighters before bombers;
- AI that can be instructed to do things like:
* flight 1: fly 5 miles ahead of us;
* flight 2: increase height to 20000 ft.
* take up position at left/right flank of bombers.
AI/Mission related AI:
- AI that can be give flight orders/tactics before the mission begins:
* only engage enemy fighters (not bombers);
* only attack ground objects in the designated kill zone;
* when primairy objective is reached, attack freely in predesignated secondary zone (or return to formation);
* e.g. escort flight 1 always stays with the bombers and attacks only: 1) if called upon or 2) are attacked themselves or 3) when bombers are directly threatened;
* e.g. escort 2 always stays 5 miles ahead of the bombers;
* all escort flights can attack freely;
Other AI issues/improvements:
* planes that are low on fuel should have priority when landing;
* first group that take took off, should have highest priority to land when several groups try to land at the same time. They've normally been in the air longest;
* extremely slow moving planes like TB3 still cartwheel when trying to get back in formation so I guess there's a bug there;
* each plane model should have a fixed and, I think, very relaxed cruising speed (Maybe this ought to be AI controlled instead of mission editor related);
* A more relaxed way of AI trying to get back into formation is acceptable for me; If you as leader make hard sudden turns, don't expect others to follow immediately. Some distance is quite acceptable and make it more real;
* When low on fuel or damaged -> RTB;
* When out of ammo, stay out of trouble and try to stay near friendly fighters;
* Let planes fly defensive circles to cover eachothers six;
* AI should recognize enemy flak and change formation, altitude or direction (when it's not their target);
* AI escort planes should stay clear of enemy flak when over the target zone (unless bombers are bounced by enemy fighters ofcourse);
* AI planes should avoid flying over occupied enemy airbases when on route (unless given attack or it's their target). Some things can be done in the mission planner, but in the game planes e.g. trying to get still fly over heavy flak defended bases to get back in to formation;
* AI should not see through clouds :-) ;
* AI that use plane with good all around cockpit view (and/or rear view mirrors), should have some SAW advantage;
* AI that fly in big formation should have some SAW advantage (lots of 'friendly' eyes in the sky). Maybe a slightly bigger overall 'SAW bubble' should be used (or smaller bubble for less planes)
* Ace AI should maybe see further than others experience levels;
* AI, when bounced during landing, should put up a fight, run away, hide or scatter;
* AI elements should perhaps sometimes split up earlier when faced with single enemy fighters;
AI that can see/detect and react to certain points of interest, e.g:
- E.g. when AI fighters fly as bomber escorts they see tracers and smoke plumes in the distance and determine to go there.
- AI see's flak, when over friendly territory, and decide "Something's going on over there, must take a look".
- AI that are over enemy territory and detect flak and decide to fly an alternate route to their target, or increase/decrease their alititude;
- AI that automatically reacts to radio call's from or friendly planes that are under threat. Of course only if they are within a short distance, have a free flight role or are involved in the same mission.
- AI that's over enemy ground and recognizes smoke plumes from train's, burning ground objects, dust from ground columns or smokey exhausts and decide it's "interesting, must take a short detour". Ofcourse, only when their mission objective would allow them to do this. If it's a free hunt for jabo's, they must certainly be able to do this.
- AI that react to radio messages from friendly air bases that are under threat. Permitted their role allows them to intercept and only if they are within a short distance.
- AI that 'understand' the difference between an easy and hard ground target. A heavily defended air base is something to be avoided and only permits a single high speed pass. No time to linger above the target for yet another highly dangerous slow speed pass. Just get the hell out of there.
- AI that decides not to attack heavily armoured targets when they no longer have the ammo to do that. If they're out of rocket's or bombs, there's no need to attack some heavy tanks with machine guns. If there are softer targets nearby, target them instead ;-)
- also, the AI currently has very fixed flight patterns when escorting bombers. I would suggest to create a larger set of escort patterns. E.g. one escort flight high, one to the left, one ahead etc, etc. Now all have to placed manually.
Yes, I know a very long list, but maybe it generates some ideas and thoughts on what to fix/improve first.
Regards,
Mark