[Test Pilot]

Your personal truth, Kwiatos?

How about this document, this is not calculated data but TESTED (except for the 190A-3)



Comparison test from december 1941

Bf 109 F-4 670 km/h in 6.2 km alt / 625 km/h in 10 km alt (flown)
Bf 109 G-1 700 km/h in 7.0 km alt /660 km/h in 10 km alt (flown)
Fw 190 A-2 650 km/h in 5.8 km alt (flown)
Fw 190 A-3 700 km/h in 5.9 km alt (estimated only)

And no, GM-1 was neither used on the F-4 nor on the G-1 in the test. In fact it says that when using GM-1 there is a further speed increased of 120km/h.

700km/h for the G-1! With 1.42ata rating but still!

660-670 for a G-1/-2 at 1.3ata at 7km altitude therefore is perfectly possible. Subtract the odd 12km/h of a tailwheel and a handful for the wingbuldges and we are at ~650km/h for a G-6.

Not my personal truth but the fact which are come from German Test

These document is not corenspondig to RL test data. Rather looks like calculated data.

Why?

These test is from 1941? It give for F-4 Db601E 1.42 Ata ( 1350 HP) and Db605A 1.42 Ata (1475 HP) for G-1 when Db601E was not cleared for 1.42 Ata until February 1942 and Db605A was not cleared for 1.42 Ata until Octomber 1943


Also speeds for Fw 190 A-2 (650 km/h) and A-3 calculated (700 km/h) are rather from the space.

These document looks very dubfull and more like prognostic and calculated data then from RL test.

We already had that one but I just want to remake that point. That Soviet test that gave 666km/h was flown at 1.3ata and in clean configuration. With gondolas it was STILL 650km/h and those twin 20mm MG151/20 sure make a lot more drag than a simple tailwheel and a small bump in the wing.

Why it's at 1.3ata? Pure and simple logic! The Bf109F-4 thats stated with 1350PS (thats 1.42ata for the DB601E) is only coming in at 624km/h... thats clearly not 1.42ata performance (a lower end figure for even the 1.3ata rating), so the G-2 is certainly also only flying at 1.3ata although it is stated to be powered by 1475 horses

There is really unknow condition of Russian test. The data for engines are for 1.42 Ata for both F-4 and G-2. These charts looks unreliable for me. We really dont know too much about these russian test. I dont trust too much in russian test from known reson. Probably most russian planes in these game have FM from such russian data and test.

And you are suggesting that a G-6 that is actually lighter than a GM-1 equipped G-1 should be drastically slower?

Maybe YOU should face the truth for once!

Yes G-6 was drasctically slower. It is not my opinion, Oleg M. version of history but German TEST if you dont see these sry but i cant help you more. These is not my imagination but RL German Test.

You really should read more carrefully avialable charts and data

You too, from your own data:

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/1 ... blatt.html

Soviet trials on Bf 109G-4 WNr. 19 968 tested by the NII VVS in October 1943. The aircraft had non-retractable tailwheel and achieved 508 km/h achieved at Sea level and 650 km/h at 7 km. Another Bf 109G tested by the NII VVS, Bf 109 G-2, WNr. 14 513, but with retractable tailwheel, achieved 524 km/h achieved at Sea level and 666 km/h at 7 km. Soviet results agree well with the Rechlin figures, except for Sea level, however it is a general trend on all Soviet Bf 109 trials to show sharply recurving speed curves near ground level for some unknown reason. Bf 109 G-2 WNr. 14 783, tested in Finnland in April 1943, achieved 522 km/h at SL, and 636 km/h at 6300m altitude. Speeds achieved at altitude show a marked drop-off on this plane. Aircraft had non-retractable tailwheel. All abovementioned performance trials were performed using Steig- und Kampfleistung 30-min power (ie. 1.3ata, 2600 revs/min).

Its only confirm that RL test from German, Finland and Russian ( unkown data of test and condition) have different variation of result. I think still the truth lay is in the middle.

And before bashing any of the aircraft modders in these forums: I have yet to see any of your creations to see the light of day here on AAA. If you think you are so much more knowledgable than us poor fm idiots over here then surely you can come up with better stuff?

I dont call any of here idot. But i clearly see that most modders here have problem with making accurate FM. These confirm performance in game such planes like Fw 190 D-11&D13, Tempest 11&13lbs and many others. Also i point that near nobody here shown reliable data which used for making FM and how it look in game.

And yes think i made better stuff without G-14 reached 725 km/h but really these is not for these site.


Still i think Kurfurst site are the best with 109 performance data.

Some sentences from Kurfurs site about 109 G performance:

"The official performance specifications for the G-1 (which applies to the very similiar G-2, G-3 and G-4) at Steig- und Kampfleistung was noted as 537 kph at SL, and 660 kph at 7000m. Take off weight given was 3037 kg (May 1942), while the Leistungzusammenstellung Me 109G report (January 1944) gives it as 3050kg.

An interesting comparison can be made with the G-2/R2 fighter-recce, which is the most comparable configuration to the clean fighter versions, being identical apart from the camera and it's screening plate installation.

The given figures for the G-2/R2 is given below as 523 kph at SL, nd 652 kph at 6700m, which are in very close agreement with :

* the official Messerschmitt AG. specifications as of May 1942 for the G-1 (537/660 kph)
* performance trials performed on a G-1 at E-Stelle Rechlin in 1943 (525/650 kph)
* performance trials performed on a Soviet-captured G-2 in early 1943 (527/666kph)
* performance trials performed by the Erla factory on 13 serial production Bf 109Gs (652 kph on avarage)


For the G-6 (and the pressurized G-5) subtype, the official figures at Steig- und Kampfleistung were noted as 510 kph at SL,
625 or 630 kph at 6600m. Take off weight was 3100kg. These also show good agreement with

The date of document is unknown. Considering the production period of noted variants, ie. G-1 (from May 1942) through G-6 (from February 1943), and the fact that performance is still noted at Steig- und Kampfleistung (1,3ata, 2600U/min for 1310 PS at SL), and not with Start- und Notleistung (which is in turn 1,42ata, 2800U/min for 1475 PS at SL.,This has been cleared for operational in October 1943), it is reasonable to believe the table dates from around mid-1943.


http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/1 ... table.html