03.09.2010, 15:15
Important Statement - For the sake of all the readers
For the participants in this topic, this is the last time that I am going to explain things to you. From now on, you will see action in response to hostile posts and few words from the Oversight Team.
As it stands now...
First, I want to acknowledge for the benefit of all that each person in this topic who posted has made significant contributions to IL-2 modding communities in the past.
The advocates, the critics, and the critics of the critics have been generally welcome at All Aircraft Simulations. This is something very unique and special about our community here.
Liberty Requires Responsibility
The closed All Aircraft Arcade and every other major modding community website would have forbidden the basic liberties that you enjoy here for freedom of expression, freedom of the press, and entering this website as equals. Certainly, open discussion about FMs would not have been allowed and a bunch of other sensitive topics were banned, too, but often arbitrarily.
Keep in mind that I am saying this in the perspective that people have been banned and/or topics about such issues ceased to ever again be allowed. Ironically, leaders of websites sometimes let those topics run for a long time before finally making intervention.
The main reason why Administrators of other IL-2 websites have had to ban open discussion about flight models and other super-sensitive topics is not because they weren't willing to disuss them - they tried that - but because some of the participants have proven to make unacceptable attacks on one another. The "flame wars" are simply not welcome in the IL-2 communities and they are not welcome here. The Oversight Team of this community is experiencing the same point of not wanting to handle any more topics gone hostile over dicussion of FM.
We want to keep all of you in this website if possible and enjoy the liberties, but we don't want the "flame wars" for sure.
Flight Models Subject Is Important But Controversial
Specifically about flight models of IL-2 aircraft and comparing them to one another and past ones with present FMs, and so forth - this is both an inevitable focus of conversation and a very sensitive one, as George admitted in his opening post.
Since the several months before All Aircraft Arcade was closed, we have seen very intense, usually unfriendly, and sometimes insulting posts by several different people in discussion about flight models, as we know. It has actually been almost a year that I can remember of this kind of hostile argueing around IL-2 flight models.
Enforcement of Rules and Vision for a Friendly Website
The Oversight Team, which includes Global Moderators and Administrators of this website, is increasing the pressure to conform to the vision of a friendly place for the community to enjoy reading and participating in discussions. The only pressure is upon those who add to the hostilities. Most people who are involved in the website are doing just fine.
For this reason, I am furthering these things based on the aleady established rules, policy, and vision for this website:
1) This topic is being moved to the IL2 FM Comparing Forum where it belongs. Though the title was not about FMs, the words of George Formby in the opening post cleary steered it that way.
2) The topic became unfriendly and clearly hostile so it should remain locked.
3) The oversight team of All Aircraft Simulations, which includes Global Moderators and Administrators will be discussing how we can do more to prevent hostile posts in the future.
4) The oversight team will discuss whether to keep this topic in the public view because of useful insight and the expression of the oversight team in it for the sake of the website. The decision to keep this topic in the public view has yet to be made. If it's allowed, then you will know it.
_________________________________________________________________
Original topic post by George Formby:
For the participants in this topic, this is the last time that I am going to explain things to you. From now on, you will see action in response to hostile posts and few words from the Oversight Team.
As it stands now...
First, I want to acknowledge for the benefit of all that each person in this topic who posted has made significant contributions to IL-2 modding communities in the past.
The advocates, the critics, and the critics of the critics have been generally welcome at All Aircraft Simulations. This is something very unique and special about our community here.
Liberty Requires Responsibility
The closed All Aircraft Arcade and every other major modding community website would have forbidden the basic liberties that you enjoy here for freedom of expression, freedom of the press, and entering this website as equals. Certainly, open discussion about FMs would not have been allowed and a bunch of other sensitive topics were banned, too, but often arbitrarily.
Keep in mind that I am saying this in the perspective that people have been banned and/or topics about such issues ceased to ever again be allowed. Ironically, leaders of websites sometimes let those topics run for a long time before finally making intervention.
The main reason why Administrators of other IL-2 websites have had to ban open discussion about flight models and other super-sensitive topics is not because they weren't willing to disuss them - they tried that - but because some of the participants have proven to make unacceptable attacks on one another. The "flame wars" are simply not welcome in the IL-2 communities and they are not welcome here. The Oversight Team of this community is experiencing the same point of not wanting to handle any more topics gone hostile over dicussion of FM.
We want to keep all of you in this website if possible and enjoy the liberties, but we don't want the "flame wars" for sure.
Flight Models Subject Is Important But Controversial
Specifically about flight models of IL-2 aircraft and comparing them to one another and past ones with present FMs, and so forth - this is both an inevitable focus of conversation and a very sensitive one, as George admitted in his opening post.
Since the several months before All Aircraft Arcade was closed, we have seen very intense, usually unfriendly, and sometimes insulting posts by several different people in discussion about flight models, as we know. It has actually been almost a year that I can remember of this kind of hostile argueing around IL-2 flight models.
Enforcement of Rules and Vision for a Friendly Website
The Oversight Team, which includes Global Moderators and Administrators of this website, is increasing the pressure to conform to the vision of a friendly place for the community to enjoy reading and participating in discussions. The only pressure is upon those who add to the hostilities. Most people who are involved in the website are doing just fine.
For this reason, I am furthering these things based on the aleady established rules, policy, and vision for this website:
1) This topic is being moved to the IL2 FM Comparing Forum where it belongs. Though the title was not about FMs, the words of George Formby in the opening post cleary steered it that way.
George Formby Wrote:For the last few months I have heard a lot of flak about something being up with the FMs of the P-51's in the UP Package...
2) The topic became unfriendly and clearly hostile so it should remain locked.
3) The oversight team of All Aircraft Simulations, which includes Global Moderators and Administrators will be discussing how we can do more to prevent hostile posts in the future.
4) The oversight team will discuss whether to keep this topic in the public view because of useful insight and the expression of the oversight team in it for the sake of the website. The decision to keep this topic in the public view has yet to be made. If it's allowed, then you will know it.
_________________________________________________________________
Original topic post by George Formby:
George Formby Wrote:For the last few months I have heard a lot of flak about something being up with the FMs of the P-51's in the UP Package, something I never gave much thought about considering to date I have put together over 100 missions dealing with the P-51A thru D. Welp, for the last month I have been doing some comparative flight analysis using UP 2.1, UI, and HSFX, pitting several scenarios, one with p-51 v P-51 (UP 2.1), P-51C-D UI v P51 C-D 2.1UP, and finally the ponys of UP and HSFX. Hoping this would finally ansewer the question, " Is there fault with the FMs of UP to a degree that they would be declared a "Super Plane"?"
My findings from the pilot seat point of view is this, I could find little if any difference in the way the ships handled, not enough to constitute any kind of un-even advantage. The roll rates were just about even. the climb/stall ratios were virtually identical, and the win/loss ratio was relatively on the same level as what it always has been for me. The P-51 D in the UP even handles similar to the real world plane (something I forgot to mention, I had the opportunity to actually catch a ride in a real pony, even got to throw the stick around, but that story is for another time) so, to me personally, I have answered my own questions about the plane.
In closing, my best advice to anyone with a doubt, test em out for yourself, judge your own findings, don't leave the answers to bums like me. I know there are going to be some to pounce on this post, so I am gonna say in advance, I am not posting this to start an argument, if you want to discuss how I set up my tests and findings, thats fine, but I WILL NOT argue the subject, this was purely a personal sort of thing, and I feel I should be able to post what I find, so here it is laid out for you cats, if you have the time, set up a little testing of your own and tell me what you think?
respectfully,
george