[Radoye]

I'm too young to have hipertension :wink:

you never know mate, i know people who caught it in their teens :|

You're right we need to calm down all, but I'm against policy changes in this aspect.

Fair enough, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion on the matter.

After all my intention was to invite debate on this subject, and what kind of debate would that be if there are no opposing views?

P.S. Have you seen my response about the LAgg-3RD? Hope to clarify it for you. Sure is a ugly plane

Yeah, that much i heard about it, that there was a consideration to mate a pre-existing airframe with a captured German jet engine. This is where eventually Yak-15 comes from.

But was there an actual Lavochkin attempt to mate a LaGG-3 airframe with a jet? And why a LaGG-3, why not some of its more modern derivatives - La-5 or La-7?

Was that initial idea ever considered any further than "it would be cool to stick a jet onto an existing airframe, but unfortunately we don't think it would work"?

[Chaoic16]

Just for a head up everyone, I wrote paragraph about why having an alternative historical(experimental and 'what if') aircraft is worth it at viewtopic.php?t=18228.




Chaoic out...

[Radoye]

Those are fair points mate but that's not what this discussion should be about.

I agree what-if planes have their place in Il-2, provided they're designed up to the standard.

The question here is, should these be clearly marked as such, to make them immediately distinguishable from the historical planes?

[Chaoic16]

Those are fair points mate but that's not what this discussion should be about.

I agree what-if planes have their place in Il-2, provided they're designed up to the standard.

The question here is, should these be clearly marked as such, to make them immediately distinguishable from the historical planes?

Ah, I see where you are trying to tell us in this thread. How about this, when the modders start adding both historical and alternative historical aircraft, the modders should label them as H for 'historical" and AH for 'alternative historical' on each of aircraft's name in IL-2 1946 menu where people will be able to tell if its H or AH?

Please let me know if this is what this thread is about? IF this is the case, then we should come up with how we should have each of planes being labelled as stated above. If you have better method that would enable people to be able to tell which aircraft is historical or alternative historical, please post them here.


Chaoic out...

[Radoye]

Please let me know if this is what this thread is about? IF this is the case, then we should come up with how we should have each of planes being labelled as stated above. If you have better method that would enable people to be able to tell which aircraft is historical or alternative historical, please post them here.

EXACTLY!!!! Finally someone got it!

My suggestion would be that in the planes.properties instead of historical year-in-service we put a marker of some sort to denote non-historical aircraft. So that their name in the various menus reads like this for example:

Hughes Aviation P-21 Devastator (fictional)

[Guest]

Pardon me, but why does there even need to be a separation? The people who use this sim are smart. They can tell that something that actually flew and something that's from an alternate history. Sounds like the idea here is to segregate aircraft.

[tityus]

The label proposed could be useful to mission builders. Although I believe that the best missions involve much homework, as in research, I'm aware that we have many that simply "put together" cool stuff and have fun with it.

Information is useful and educational. If it is provided in a non-polluting way, better yet.

for the labels I would use "HST" and "ALT".

[Radoye]

Information is useful and educational. If it is provided in a non-polluting way, better yet.

:cheers:

[Goblin]

My desire is the AAA experts still improve the acurate of FM in new slot planes, with objetive do more near possible of documental historic data test, the engine isnt complex enougth to hit this, but lets try do the best, there is a lot wrong FMs to fix.

+1

[Saburo Sakai]

Pardon me, but why does there even need to be a separation? The people who use this sim are smart. They can tell that something that actually flew and something that's from an alternate history. Sounds like the idea here is to segregate aircraft.

YES, this would have to happen, segregation of planes, the main reason for this is because when you have people making or adjusting their servers to accommodate the fantasy side of things, it cuts down the places where people can fly, therefore driving people out as opposed to gaining people,( and to be honest, i for one would not want that)
you have people going out to buy a ww2 sim, and they get il2, then they go online to mix it up with other human controlled planes and would find they are being attacked by planes that did not exist , even on paper, or shot down by heat seeking missiles etc.

t dont matter how " smart" someone is to be able to tell the difference, people will still have to fly against these ubernoob planes and then eventually give up on il2 because it will be totally destroyed by them.

lets get the sim as real as is possible befor seeing death stars and laser guided weapons eh?
il2 is aftere all, a ww2 sim, not a startdate 3641.2 sim :wink:

[Greyhound]

It seems to me as a case of apples and oranges.....there is a huge amount of work that goes into making an addition to the sim, whether it is a mod or a new slot. I would think that if someone puts both the time and effort into making one on his own time, and cares enough to post it here, then I would think that it would be up to the moderators or admins to see if 1) it can go into the next installer, or 2) be posted as a downloadable mod.


I am personally not picky either way; if there is a mod out there that I would like to fly, then I download it and install it. If I don't really care for it, then I don't. It makes no difference to me at all so long as someone doesn't put a Komet FM onto a He-111 or something crazy like that and fly on a public server like the AAA server.


There are alot of aircraft that probably would be in the "What-if" scenario...kind of like the XP-55 Ascender to name one.


-Edited to add-

Perhaps a possible solution to this would perhaps create a server that would have these types of super-planes for the people who want to fly them? Perhaps this would be a way to have the best of both worlds, like add some of them to a separate installer? The planesets can be governed in the server. This could possibly give the community the best of both worlds?

[Saburo Sakai]

because some additions wont have a date because they would never have existed, and there are lots of people that are not so "into" the plane types as you and i and many others are.

[Radoye]

because some additions wont have a date because they would never have existed, and there are lots of people that are not so "into" the plane types as you and i and many others are.

Couldn't say it better myself!


@ Greyhound:

An XP-55 Ascender would not be a "what if" plane. It did not enter service, that's true, but it did exist, it was built and flown. Therefore it qualifies as "real".

Even most of the Luft '46 could be considered "real" if we stretch it a bit, because there were plans drawn and performance estimate calculations done, in some cases there were models tested in wind tunnels or even full-size mock-ups built... That would make these too at least ~somewhat~ real.

What i'm talking about are planes that were never actually built, in some cases not even considered even as a concept on a drawing board - a completely fictional type that has no relation to history. And i've seen several such popping up here and there.

One of the more extreme examples is a "Yak-3K" with arrestor gear that takes off with ease from a carrier while being loaded with 1xFAB250 + 4xFAB100 = 650kg of ordnance, and still has all the agility and speed of "real" Yak-3. This mod is based on a series of alternate fiction books, and while i don't even want to think about trying to tell people what they are allowed to mod or not, stuff like this should IMHO be somehow labeled apart from "real" stuff.

(To make matters worse, there was a real life Yak-3K prototype that has NOTHING in common with this alternate history version - so there's a potential for confusion!)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

What is your take?

Not worth the effort. Leave the choice to the end user. If they want them fine, if they dont, fine! With that said you can bet you will see some users using them. Why? Because some users also use options like cockpit allways on (wonder woman view) turned off! To each his own! You can't force your view of what is fun on others, thus putting a lable on a plane aint going to slow them down one bit.

[RealDarko]

Yeah, that much i heard about it, that there was a consideration to mate a pre-existing airframe with a captured German jet engine. This is where eventually Yak-15 comes from.

But was there an actual Lavochkin attempt to mate a LaGG-3 airframe with a jet? And why a LaGG-3, why not some of its more modern derivatives - La-5 or La-7?

Was that initial idea ever considered any further than "it would be cool to stick a jet onto an existing airframe, but unfortunately we don't think it would work"?

I don't know what they used the Lagg-3 airframe, I supose that is the best airframe of the time of the trial, or at least the more tried. But yes, Lagg designed the Lagg-3RD with a jet engine and the strange nose we see in the game, they also planned to add the two cannons over the jet engine.
Anyway the plane was not accepted for production.
If I have time will scan the info I found in my book