[JG3_VonHahn]

I wish AAA would have continued the UI series, I can rather deal with longer loading time than crapped FM's.

+1 for UI series.
I have both UI and HSFX. As I can see with HSFX we do not have any control about the mods installed (except from the few options in JSGME, but the things I mean are completely included in "History-SFX mod" there.
I liked to have the control over all mods installed. For example map mods. With little knowlegde we could apply textures by our owns or stuff.
But with HSFX I have no Idea how to add costum Mods but wait on Update. As Mapmodder this totaly makes me uncomfortable with it.
OK, I use HSFX for for it designed campaigns and corea scenarious.
But for testing Mods and Stuff I still use the UI Version where I have full control

I feel very sad, UI has cleaned the field and will be no longer supported and developt.

This is my opinion about the current Mod package system.

[Retro-Burn]

There's confidence that everything will be wrapped in HSFX at some point (maybe this year?)... there will be a consensus on these FM or DM discussions and that IL2 will live on for years. Have faith.

[Dustydog]

I installed them both, but I use UP 2.0 I think it's better IMHO Looking forward to having that ONE unified install.....

[Panama Red]

The question that I have concerning a "one install" and HSFX is their statement of:

242 Squadron quote:
[b]Everyone assumes that the HSFX mod package, which is now being used to underpin the 'unified' mods, was designed for this purpose. It wasn't. We in 242Sqn, and the squads we fly with, have been using HSFX for a long time now, through its A-G then v2 & v3 incarnations until the present v4. HSFX was built to allow us to fly in Scorched Earth campaigns and contains the featured mods that WE need for those campaigns.
Many of the mods that you, and others, like have been rejected by us for one reason or another. Some caused conflicts, some weren't very good, some we didn't like and some we hadn't tried. Others just weren't necessary for our purposes.

However, Charlie Chap, the main man behind HSFX, didn't do this all on his own. He believes in cooperation and is always in touch with any modder who wishes to be so. Thus, when it was found that HSFX 4 was going to be in compressed .SFS format, shipping along with Prof's excellent installer, then the other modding groups were immediately aware of this.
AAA, SAS, etc realized that this was the way to go and decided to adopt the HSFX package as the basis for all mod packs. All jolly good, unification of the mods - well done everybody said.

But, and here's the rub, because of this what you now get as the 'unified' mod pack is OUR mod pack, designed by us, for us. The features in it are designed for 242Sqn, 102nd, IAF.101 etc, i.e. the groups we fly with, so it's inevitable that it won't suit everyone.

So, by accident really, you are stuck with what we like, but at least it

[Dustydog]

I know from reading hundreds of posts all the "history" of how HSFX came to be used by the other groups. It was very good of 242 to share this with everyone. I understand it was made for 242, but it works very well for me, and I have no complaints....I would be happy to have HSFX as a base for any future, single pack.

[Retro-Burn]

Because compressed SFS files are the way to go. Now, 242 will always have their preferred settings, but it is customizable to the point where other areas can be used. Example is the UI 1.2.5 stuff. All of that is included in the 4.1 upgrade. The rest of the flyable aircraft will soon follow. Remember, it's not the creators that were chosen, it is the platform moving forward that benefits all of us. The era of throwing home-made mods into a MODS folder for on-line use will soon be over IMHO...

[Panama Red]

I'm not disputing the condensed ".SFS" files, my comment is about a group who has made their mod for themselves, not others. At least UP has made it's mod for everybody to use and has the ability to downgrade to HSFX 4.1 (even if there is a on going discussion on their FM's)

For a "unified" package to exist, the condensed ".SFS" files are needed, thus the 242 Squadron with it's SFS repacker is needed, but if you want the "unified" package to only be what 242 Squadron wants, then that means the rest of the world has to only use what they want.

The only way this will work is along the lines that UltraPack adopted, i.e. built on top of HSFX, but then that still gives you at least 2 major versions of mods and three when you throw in SAS with it's new "Online" and "Offline" buttons (that use the HSFX FMs versus the UP FMs).

[8FS_Bulau]

UP2 screwed with the stock dm's and fm's. That's a line that should have never been crossed.
If I'm going to settle on any mod it's hsfx.

Hades has categorically stated, on AAA forum, that UP did not do any of that:

So hear it first hand:
The UP 2.0 has not modified any Stock-Flyable (Oleg-made) plane. The UP 2.0 has not modified any Stock weapons.

viewtopic.php?t=24027&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

[Monguse]

Stepping outside the box.

HSFX was and is a good starting point for everyone that was the main reason why Charlie posted, "[you have what we have, it's tailored to our campaigns]". This however does not mean that 4.1 will be the end, 4.2 will be made then other versions.

Lets look at the "we tailored it to our campaigns" part of the quote. The current content (P47 and frags to be used against moving infantry) I'm working as well as the B25 and strafers along with the new 38's and P51's were created specifically to fill in the voids we need for online campaign.

(The link is inoperative)
viewtopic.php?p=269648#269648


Does then this new content make it less usable in a dogfight server? Of course not! Look then at the new P51 paintscheme featuring corrected three letter codes, is this specific for SEOW or any online campaign or coop or dogfight server or single player? Of course not.

Now since the "buzz" is that HSFX is for campaign only, we (Fallen Angels and friends) did a little testing on our own using HSFX with coops, single player and dogfight sever way before Up 2.0 came out. Guess what? No differences.

I guess it's how you sell and what the new buzzword is.

Now let look at MDF in both UP and HSFX, do you need that for coops? Nope. Can you use it? Yep. Why? for one you get nastier AI and a bunch of other stuff like rearm/repair etc.

So what the difference one might ask? Well for one UP uses different FM's for some of the new MOD aircraft than what HSFX has, at least in UP 2.0. On that point, I guess we all can watch what the future brings.

Does UP have more aircraft, yeah a few. Now given the fact that UP has a few more does not mean they will always have more. For instance, as soon as we release the new content we are working on then UP will not have as many as HSFX.


Let's look at the core. HSFX is a bit more than just a framework although it could be refered as some sort of framework because derivitive mod packs are still being propagated based on HSFX which is based on the original game content by 1c.


So what are the biggest differences between HSFX and UP. For one it contains additional planes some new exe files (donated by Charlie Chap that address memory issues (created by Lesnihu sorry about the spelling]) and some new mod folders that take a bit of the guessing out of choosing mods. As noted above UP contains different flight models for some of the mod aircraft. In short UP is HSFX rebranded.

The reality is this, without HSFX UP would be a 20 gb install as the old AAA UI had it not been for Charlie Chap and crew offering the sfs repacker. Its that simple.

So to give credit where credit is due, thanks Charlie/242/SEOW guys and anyone else I forgot on making HSFX.

Hence what does one do? Vote with your feet meaning, the core is HSFX and it works in DF mode Coop, single player etc. If you want different Fm for the Mod planes in HSFX choose UP. If you want the additional planes that HSFX does not have at this moment, choose UP. Once 4.2 comes out and you want to fly the new content, select HSFX.


To prove my point, the Fallen Angels are hosting a temporary vanilla version of HSFX 4.1 on hypperlobby with easier settings (not wonder woman)

Warwings
CRT=2 Stats, http://windsofwar.dyndns.org/warwings//index.php
IP 70.87.121.84:21006

Settings

• CRT2 ON
  Externals ON
  Cockpit Closed
  Short Icons
  

• Mod requirements:
  History SFX
  Zuti 1.01 (edited from Zuti 1.1)
  6DOF
  No mods folder (make sure you disable your mods folder)
  

Test it out and everyone will see that HSFX is good for either coop campaings, dogfight campaign servers or dogfight servers.

Hope this answers the question of what is viable for online play and some of the differences.

When I have the time, which may be tonight, I'll do an in depth study of what pack contains what and how they pair up (for the current versions we have).

[skyomish]

Dear Mr. Monguse,
I go along with EVER thing you said.HSFX is great just like it stands.
I do have to ask about the WARWINGS server. They have listed Zuti 1.1.
HSFX has Zuti 1.01. Now I downloaded UP 2.0 just to get that mod and still keep HSFX.
I placed it in the JSGME.
It never would let me in a server that uses 1.1.
Any idea how these guys got it to WORK with HSFX???
I went to the server just now and could not get in because of Zuti 1.1. So its not a typo.

[BH_Blue]

more fights and accusations without evidence?
this is very sad for everyone.
as to which is better, if the UP 2.0 is a refinement of HSFX 4.1, obviously, UP is better.
But I'm not here to defend anyone.
Just answer me one question.
Which the best server in HL?
Which the package MODS he is using?

Ive heard from other people that UP does indeed use modified FMs/DMs

[Monguse]

@skyomish

Thanks for the catch, FA will be making that change today.

Fallen Angels will also be helping out those that do not have Zuti 1.1 from the UP pack. If you guys join our Team speak 3.0 server

IP: 70.87.121.84:9987

I'm sure some helpful souls will show you where to download MDF 1.1 for later use.

[skyomish]

Whats the last 4 in the IP :8767?????

[Monguse]

Here you go
IP: 70.87.121.84:9987

Edited original post as well

[megalopsuche]

Check the manifold on the 51D-25NA in HSFX and UP2, see the bias for yourself. The new 51s also have a different dm than the stock 51s. It's casuistry to say that's not messing with stock dm's.