30.03.2008, 15:43
Well, that's two photos of the same aircraft so far.. Good effort though! 
Remove the bombrack for the Fw190s?
30.03.2008, 17:35
Anders_And Wrote:http://accel23.mettre-put-idata.over-blo...90-008.jpg
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/fw190cr_3.jpg
Probably Fw 190 A-7
31.03.2008, 02:26
I think this could be a technical test or something. Look at the wings these plane doesn't have cannons.
31.03.2008, 07:10
From the english Wiki Article on the FW 190:
"In late 1943 the Erla Antwerp factory designed a new, much more simple rack/drop tank fitting, which was much more streamlined than the bulky ETC 501 and could be quickly fitted or removed prior to take-off. Several A-6s, A-7s and A-8s of JG 26 were fitted with these racks (one aircraft so fitted was A-8 W.Nr.170346 Black 13 flown by Obstlt. Josef Priller during the Normandy invasion on 6 June 1944.)"
Link: (Look under Fw 190 A-6 approx. 1/3 down the page.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190
I didn't find any photos yet, but will keep on looking (i only looked for five minutes yet lol).
But the device was definitely manufactured, fitted and used in combat.
"In late 1943 the Erla Antwerp factory designed a new, much more simple rack/drop tank fitting, which was much more streamlined than the bulky ETC 501 and could be quickly fitted or removed prior to take-off. Several A-6s, A-7s and A-8s of JG 26 were fitted with these racks (one aircraft so fitted was A-8 W.Nr.170346 Black 13 flown by Obstlt. Josef Priller during the Normandy invasion on 6 June 1944.)"
Link: (Look under Fw 190 A-6 approx. 1/3 down the page.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190
I didn't find any photos yet, but will keep on looking (i only looked for five minutes yet lol).
But the device was definitely manufactured, fitted and used in combat.
31.03.2008, 07:55
Maybe few planes was fitted with ETC 504 experimentaly, but in Fw 190 A-8's report (28.11.1944) is info, that this rack is still not used as standard. "This will be replaced at a later date".
31.03.2008, 08:37
Klemm, ein Geschenk Fw 190 A-8 PDF Handbuch. Englische
Fw 190 A-8 PDF Handbuch. Englische
31.03.2008, 08:57
the 501 was "standard from the factory" but it does not means that no field changes were made.
The jg26 took the rear fuselage fuel tanks out of most of their 190a8, in this case, the presence of the bulgy etc501 wasn't needed anymore to compensate the CoG.
That's why they used the 109's erla mounts when it was needed to carry a droptank.
that's called a field mod and you will not find it in the factoy manual
Do you see a spit rearview mirror in a p-51 manual ?:lol: :lol: :lol:
The jg26 took the rear fuselage fuel tanks out of most of their 190a8, in this case, the presence of the bulgy etc501 wasn't needed anymore to compensate the CoG.
That's why they used the 109's erla mounts when it was needed to carry a droptank.
that's called a field mod and you will not find it in the factoy manual
Do you see a spit rearview mirror in a p-51 manual ?:lol: :lol: :lol:
31.03.2008, 09:15
JV69_BADA Wrote:the 501 was "standard from the factory" but it does not means that no field changes were made.
The jg26 took the rear fuselage fuel tanks out of most of their 190a8, in this case, the presence of the bulgy etc501 wasn't needed anymore to compensate the CoG.
That's why they used the 109's erla mounts when it was needed to carry a droptank.
that's called a field mod and you will not find it in the factoy manual
Do you see a spit rearview mirror in a p-51 manual ?:lol: :lol: :lol:
Many Fw 190 A-8 flew without rear fuselage tank, maybe more, than within. But without bomb rack? Maybe very very very few planes. I've never seen photo of Fw 190 A-8/9/F-8/9 without any rack.
31.03.2008, 10:54
Hey Fucida, thank you for that Handbook. And I have no problem with English, so no worries there.
But the thing is, i already had that Handbook a year ago or so. Read it all through, but there wasn't much that stuck in my mind, too many details which are unimportant for aircombat :lol:
I will look at it again, but on the other hand i doubt that it will solve our problem in question here.
And for the supposed rarity of installations of the ETC 504 on 190, we have many things already in game that were not standard at any time of the war, and there are also some mods which add the exceptional. So who cares if this rack was not installed in the factory? And that it wasn't used THAT much? It would be a welcome addition anyway, for me.
But the thing is, i already had that Handbook a year ago or so. Read it all through, but there wasn't much that stuck in my mind, too many details which are unimportant for aircombat :lol:
I will look at it again, but on the other hand i doubt that it will solve our problem in question here.
And for the supposed rarity of installations of the ETC 504 on 190, we have many things already in game that were not standard at any time of the war, and there are also some mods which add the exceptional. So who cares if this rack was not installed in the factory? And that it wasn't used THAT much? It would be a welcome addition anyway, for me.
31.03.2008, 11:02
Klemm Wrote:And for the supposed rarity of installations of the ETC 504 on 190, we have many things already in game that were not standard at any time of the war, and there are also some mods which add the exceptional. So who cares if this rack was not installed in the factory? And that it wasn't used THAT much? It would be a welcome addition anyway, for me.
I have no problem with ETC 504. Just with option "no rack at all"
I wish fuel tank option for A-8/9.
31.03.2008, 11:34
Then we're on the same track, Fucida! Smaller rack for later versions, A-6, A-8 and maybe A-9 and fuel tank option. I don't know about you, but as i stated, a new FM for that as well, since there wouldn't be a point otherwise in doing that. And removal of outer wing guns and a no rack option, maybe as a 'freak' version. Or with a small rack then.
But in all that fantasizing we mustn't forget that someone actually has to do those modifications. And he does them as he like. So let's hope that there is somebody who can and will.
But in all that fantasizing we mustn't forget that someone actually has to do those modifications. And he does them as he like. So let's hope that there is somebody who can and will.
31.03.2008, 12:50
Klemm Wrote:Then we're on the same track, Fucida! Smaller rack for later versions, A-6, A-8 and maybe A-9 and fuel tank option. I don't know about you, but as i stated, a new FM for that as well, since there wouldn't be a point otherwise in doing that. And removal of outer wing guns and a no rack option, maybe as a 'freak' version. Or with a small rack then.
But in all that fantasizing we mustn't forget that someone actually has to do those modifications. And he does them as he like. So let's hope that there is somebody who can and will.
Agree.
03.04.2008, 05:07
You guys are probably right! I must have seen pictures of earlier versions of the Fw190 without bombrack! However IMO the Fw190 looks so much better without the bombrack, more like a deadly fighter with beautiful lines.. Anyway, if that is not historically correct even for the fighter version then lets keep it as it is!
10.04.2008, 22:27
Fucida Wrote:Anders_And Wrote:I dont want any changes in FM! My question is ONLY for cosmetical reasons!! I have seen many pictures of Fw190A models, even late ones without bombracks, IE fw190A8 fighter version. They were not that rare on the western front!
Gimme one photo
No worries. I have some pics of:
1. the smaller rack on A-7s and A-8s; and
2. A-8s with no racks at all.
They are in a book and I don't have a scanner. So I'll have to do it at work. That means next week at the earliest.
cheers,
Ratsack
10.04.2008, 22:31
Fucida Wrote:Anders_And Wrote:http://accel23.mettre-put-idata.over-blo...90-008.jpg
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/fw190cr_3.jpg
Probably Fw 190 A-7
No, it's Wagner's A-8. You can tell it's not an A-7 by the location of the pitot tube at the end of the right wing. That was introduced on the A-8. On the A-7 and all earlier versions the pitot tube was a much longer jobbie, just outboard of the outer right-hand cannon.
The pics that I have of the smaller rack are for an A-7 (dunno the unit off the top of my head) and for Priller's A-8.
The rackless A-8s I don't remember the details of, other than that one Anders has already posted.
cheers,
Ratsack
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