[Klemm]

I didn't care to ask that until now, but the advent of those weapons in the Hornisse brought back this idea of mine. Would it be possible to incorporate those weapons into most (if not all) of the German '46 planes?
New version of course, the FM wouln't even have to be touched i guess.
The MG/MK 213 were really missing all the time since we've got 1946.
One can only wonder why Oleg didn't put them in at all, maybe it was to balance the sides somewhat.

Candidates i can think of now include the Ta-183, Ta-152 C and maybe the He-162.

This was a dream of mine since 1946 came out, i would be more than grateful if someone realized it. Though i don't think this mod would need much work, i really don't know.
Looking forward to some feedback! 8)

[GentleKiller]

what is MK213? is it the same thing as MG151/20?

[RAF_Magpie]

:?:

The Mauser MG 213 was a 20 mm aircraft-mounted revolver cannon developed for the Luftwaffe during World War II. It was never put into service, but the principles formed the basis for several post-war developments by the Allies. A 30 mm version was developed as the MG 213C or MK 213 and it was this that led to the British ADEN and French DEFA cannons. [1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_MG_213

It was available in 2 calibers one was the 20x135mm derived from 20mm flak, and 30x85B

The rate of fire was 1100-1300, the modern series of Aden, Defa, and Mauser BK-27 was derivated from it

[RGA]

Is it compact enough to be mounted in a fighter?

[Klemm]

Is it compact enough to be mounted in a fighter?

Here is the German Wiki site for the weapon, it is the one with the most information: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_213
Our German members should be able to read it, nevertheless here are some translated sections:

20-mm-MG213C:

* Calibre: 20 x 146 mm
* Weight: 75 kg; installed weight 96 kg
* Length of the weapon: 1930 mm
* length of barrel: 1600 mm
* rate of fire: 1200 - 1400 rounds/min. ~21 rounds/sec.
* muzzle velocity: 1050 m/sec.

30-mm-MK213C:

* Calibre: 30 x 146 mm
* Weight: 75 kg; installed weight 96 kg
* Length of the weapon: 1630 mm
* length of barrel: 1300 mm
* rate of fire: 1000 - 1200 Schuss/min. (ca. 19 rounds/sec.)
* muzzle velocity: 530 m/sec.

As you can see, the weapon is relatively light for such destructive firepower, and here is some data of the MK 103 in comparison:

* calibre: 30 mm
* length: 2318 mm
* weight: 146 kg
* ROF: 440 rounds/min
* muzzle velocity: 860 m/sec


Heck, they even mounted that thing (the MK 103) in the FW 190A. The only problem i see is the length of the MG/MK 213, but the weapons are mounted beside the cockpit in most jet fighters anyway, so this shouldn't really be a problem.

Searching through the Luft 46 website, i found a nice pic in which you can compare the MK 108 with the MK 213 nicely:


I hope that was convincing enough.

[EDIT] I just saw that the pic looks shitty on this board, here is the original URL: http://www.luft46.com/horten/hox-2.gif

[Elvenking]

I think it would be great to see Ta-183 or Me-262HGII with these weapons - for example 2x 20mm and 2x 30mm

[Radoye]

I think it would be great to see Ta-183 or Me-262HGII with these weapons - for example 2x 20mm and 2x 30mm

Why mix 'em? They would probably put 4 of the same - helps with aiming when all guns have the same ballistics...

[GentleKiller]

wow thanks for the info guys, thats why i thoguht that the me410 with 6 of those sexy cannons can kill the b24 in one run

[ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP]

I think it would be great to see Ta-183 or Me-262HGII with these weapons - for example 2x 20mm and 2x 30mm

Why mix 'em? They would probably put 4 of the same - helps with aiming when all guns have the same ballistics...

The Me-262A1/U1 had a mix of 103s, 108s, and 151s. Having different ballistics can round out a volley, especially at mid-ranges (ie. a 103 provide central accuracy, 108s provide rate of fire). That said, all of the proposals (about a dozen) for mountings of 213s that I've seen had them replacing the cannons (a pair of Mg-151/15 or Mg-131s was often retained, though).

In reality the unreliability of the 213s would have likely seen them mixed with more conventional armament. In reality the 213s were also never deployed.

I view it is extremely unlikely that more than a handful of a couple of types of aircraft would have carried them even if the war had gone on another year.

If one were to create a new slot for an existing aircraft giving the Ar-234 its correct payload options or giving the Lagg-RD its correct thrust rating would both make more historical sense (as would an X-4 armed Ju-88 for that matter)

[Th!rdeye]

It was never put into service,

I don't want to order people to do things. But we gotta keep things historically correct. If their were PLANS to put a Mk213 in a jet that was in IL-2 then its ok. Just don't put the weapons in planes that never had them.

[Radoye]

The Me-262A1/U1 had a mix of 103s, 108s, and 151s. Having different ballistics can round out a volley, especially at mid-ranges (ie. a 103 provide central accuracy, 108s provide rate of fire).

Yes, but that's done as an experiment, because the 108-only armament was found inadequate due to the low muzzle velocity (can't consistently hit agile fighters because the guns aren't accurate enough under high deflection angles) so they tried to mount different guns. 103's only were out of question due to excess size & weight and low RoF and 151/20's only were too weak so they mixed it up. So this was more born out of a necessity than because they though it was a good idea to mix armament types...

[ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP]

Radoye, thank you for confirming my guess!

It was never put into service,

I don't want to order people to do things. But we gotta keep things historically correct. If their were PLANS to put a Mk213 in a jet that was in IL-2 then its ok. Just don't put the weapons in planes that never had them.

If you have any plans I'd love to see them. :wink:

There are rumors of plans for a test mount in a Fw-190 (I think a Dora - but I'm not sure and the whole subjects seems dubious - did any of the prototypes have synchronization mechanisms?). There were paper drawings of highly derived Ta-152s and He-162s possibly carrying a new generation of 30mm cannons (but both of these drawings differ from any variant currently modeled in Il-2).

[Guest]

i like the idea

if ya consider this i suggest putting replacement mg/mk213s as secondary armament it would still let ya use the defaults in no mod servers, or if ya just like to have both old an new

anyway, great idea an hope to see a mod made here

an about realism, i believe the ta152c, an ta183 had these as possible mounts, not sure about the he162 though, an think fw190 ain't got them neither, and also what about the lerch, not sure on that at all

[Guest]

if the fw190 had this then suggest a new weapon loadout like replacement mg/mk213s
i'd like a 190 wth this mod

[Radoye]

Yeah, 56 of these guns and 42 jet engines, gimme gimme gimme!!!