[Guest]

CHANGE BACK A.I. 4.09b as 3.04 A.I.

- No more infinite barrel roll by A.I. planes.
- No more A.I. predictable maneuvers.
- No more A.I. no radiator heating - realistic velocity when evading = more chances to catch them.
PLUS:
- No more A.I. sniper rear gunner=realistic chanches to survive at enemy bomber "6".

I whish one day some good modder will make this badly needed mod definitely- 8)

[GeneralPsycho]

CHANGE BACK A.I. 4.09b as 3.04 A.I.

- No more infinite barrel roll by A.I. planes.
- No more A.I. predictable maneuvers.
- No more A.I. no radiator heating - realistic velocity when evading = more chances to catch them.
PLUS:
- No more A.I. sniper rear gunner=realistic chanches to survive at enemy bomber "6".

I whish one day some good modder will make this badly needed mod definitely- 8)

i Thought that it was done once, but i guess wrong, since i practice everyday with Ace skilled AI, i dont seem to have a problem

[creamy]

it would be more intresting

[Messer]

Ugh, I hate the current AI. It's too fast (and doesn't seem to overheat), can pull amazing high-g maneuvres without blacking out, but worst of all, bomber gunners are impossibly accurate. :roll:

[rollnloop]

- No more infinite barrel roll by A.I. planes.
- No more A.I. predictable maneuvers.
- No more A.I. no radiator heating - realistic velocity when evading = more chances to catch them.
PLUS:
- No more A.I. sniper rear gunner=realistic chanches to survive at enemy bomber "6".

1/wrong (AI has done this since demo, don't fly aginst aces and you'll see less of this)
2/wrong (same, once you fight a bit with AI it's always predictable)
3/wrong (it's hardcoded since demo too)
4/wrong (it has always been since demo. Since later patches "panic" has been coded for lower levels.Don't fly against ace AI and you'll see less)

The only AI difference 3.04/4.09b, to me, is that in 3.04 energy fighters (FW,P-47, etc...) would engage in scissors/low speed turn, etc... with a more manoeuvrable ennemy. After loosing all their energy, they were dead meat. Plus jabos would immediately release their bombs, even if 16acft, and engage that lone storch/U2/C-47 10kms away.

Plus, AI cannot be dissociated from FMs, since 4.01 with have a much more realistic FM regarding energy conservation. That said, to each his own, i don't care if someone prefers to fly an earlier AI, but i cough when reading misconceptions.

[ILV_Aquila_Noctis]

Nevertheles, the suggested Improvements are a good idea. I hate sitting in a better plane and have the AI outturn me with stuff I couldn't do if I had Blackouts turned off...+1 on Full Real for AI!

[JoeA]

I am quite sure that all the crying about AI changing from patch to patch is just the placebo effect for the most part, perhaps some part is played with large global FM (physics) changes but that would not account for the things people complain about.

Fact is AI is one of the hardest things to model in ANY game.

[Guest]

rollnop, sorry but only I think you don't have played too much this game as off-line player or at least you didn't have played it quite much on 3.04 because all I've reported in my provocatory thread I've opened here is wide agreeded from age by 99% of Il2 community in all point I've summarized above.And please notice I don't want to be polemic with you (despite your rude answer..). I just renewed a old request-dream of many people like me, who will prever to play off line this game in a more realistic possibility as pre 4.01 patch really was apart your and few other respectable but minoritary opinion here. Cheers.

[fly_zo]

It would be nice if we can get rid of sniper gunners and can get second flight to obey orders again( like they used to do ) so we can prevent breaking from escort and chasing first plane that crosses our way .

regards
Z

[TH0R]

It would be nice if we can get rid of sniper gunners and can get second flight to obey orders again( like they used to do ) so we can prevent breaking from escort and chasing first plane that crosses our way .

regards
Z

Quite right but again not... They have their moments , but AI gunners in this sim are very easy to fool. Just don't attack alone and you will see how easy is to shoot the whole formation of bombers.

Things that need improving are:

AI gunners not being affected by G-forces (hence those incredible shots even when the targeted plane is manouvering badly)
AI gunners allways knowing where you are (they don't need to scan the horizon)
AI shooting blindly in the oposite direction of the attacker (not sure why, but to me it happenes allways in SBD's)
AI not taking friendly bombers flying nearby into account when firing (team kills)


6 O'clock attacks were very quickly abandoned by Luftwaffe in WW2, except when they were executed by heavy calibre guns which could fire well out of gunners range, usually carried by twin engined planes. But that was abandoned as well when Mustangs came in.

When you look at those guncameras where a plane is sitting on B-17's 6 OC and firing away you got to remember that gunners on those heavies had ammo for no more than 1 minute or firing, usually no more than 600 rounds per gun. And missions lasted up to 8 hours and more - so you do the math.

[fly_zo]

It would be nice if we can get rid of sniper gunners and can get second flight to obey orders again( like they used to do ) so we can prevent breaking from escort and chasing first plane that crosses our way .

regards
Z

Quite right but again not... They have their moments , but AI gunners in this sim are very easy to fool. Just don't attack alone and you will see how easy is to shoot the whole formation of bombers.

Things that need improving are:

AI gunners not being affected by G-forces (hence those incredible shots even when the targeted plane is manouvering badly)
AI gunners allways knowing where you are (they don't need to scan the horizon)
AI shooting blindly in the oposite direction of the attacker (not sure why, but to me it happenes allways in SBD's)
AI not taking friendly bombers flying nearby into account when firing (team kills)


6 O'clock attacks were very quickly abandoned by Luftwaffe in WW2, except when they were executed by heavy calibre guns which could fire well out of gunners range, usually carried by twin engined planes. But that was abandoned as well when Mustangs came in.

When you look at those guncameras where a plane is sitting on B-17's 6 OC and firing away you got to remember that gunners on those heavies had ammo for no more than 1 minute or firing, usually no more than 600 rounds per gun. And missions lasted up to 8 hours and more - so you do the math.

wow m8 , you've made quite a dissertation out of it ..... i do agree with all

i just hate being shoot in the eye from ju87 rear gunner when passing by at rather high speed

again, all that you've said is quite right

regards
Z

[rollnloop]

Falco, i didn't mean to be rude, and i'd be glad for you to have fun with offline game. I assure you that i have played it offline quite a bit since demo (and continue to do so), i even betatested it for some time. What i meant is that even if some of your oservations of known problems are true, your expected solution (reverting to 3.04AI) will not give the desired result.

Reducing AI level from ace/veteran to medium/rookie will help much more. It is not a competition and your ego has not to suffer from reducing AI ability, i do this too much when creating missions (putting veteran/ace in very parcimonious numbers).

[fly_zo]

Reducing AI level from ace/veteran to medium/rookie will help much more. It is not a competition and your ego has not to suffer from reducing AI ability, i do this too much when creating missions (putting veteran/ace in very parcimonious numbers).

that is why i don't play custom static campaigns anymore ( well most of them anyway ...) cos i hate to edit every mission just to tune down AI and change player flight ( when i get wrong plane in the middle of it ) ... And for DCG is really pain in the a** to go and set AI level every time new squad gets introduced ( if you set it in general ... your bombers doesn't hit anything ) . Same thing is for Dgen so i as 100% offliner would really appreciate improvement of Ai .

I'm still playing with icons ( map ones too) dynamic campaigns ... i believe there is no shame in it

regards
Z

[Guest]

Falco, i didn't mean to be rude, and i'd be glad for you to have fun with offline game. I assure you that i have played it offline quite a bit since demo (and continue to do so), i even betatested it for some time. What i meant is that even if some of your oservations of known problems are true, your expected solution (reverting to 3.04AI) will not give the desired result.

Reducing AI level from ace/veteran to medium/rookie will help much more. It is not a competition and your ego has not to suffer from reducing AI ability, i do this too much when creating missions (putting veteran/ace in very parcimonious numbers).

rollnop, I'm with you on playing this sim since demo preview and It is not an ego problem we all have about strange and worst behaviour of A.I. since 4.01 despite of its level and however thank for your posting suggestion about their setting.. may be this will be useful for n00b players.. we all know that till 3.04 the A.I. behaviour was more realistic than 4.01 where Mr.Oleg. introduced a BETA features where A.I. was affected by player's flight. May be you haven't read many times UbiZoo forum in the past years because there has been a very long request there in the last years asking to revert back to 3.04 A.I. erasing that bad "beta" situation never changed by Oleg and it's team as many other bad or unfortunately setting that never changed despite the evidence they were wrong.regards.

[rollnloop]

we all know that till 3.04 the A.I. behaviour was more realistic than 4.01 where Mr.Oleg. introduced a BETA features where A.I. was affected by player's flight.

We don't all know, and especially i don't know. The only beta addition, to my knowledge, introduced in 4.00 (not published) then 4.01 was FM with better inertia/energy retention.

Please show me where oleg (or luthier,or starshoy, or any official from the team) says there are AI beta features in 4.00. I also admit i quit reading (or read it very seldom) ubiforums at the same time as oleg did stop posting there, circa 2003, and i'm not aware of this demand thread (i couldn't find it using the search function either).

[quote]README
Pacific Fighters v.4.011 (4.011m)


Warning

The current version 4.011 (4.011m) is not compatible with the previous versions of the sim when playing over the network (Online). Both the server and client must have the appropriate versions in order to connect.

For your convenience, we have introduced different version numbers for the stand-alone installation and the merged (FB+AEP+PF) install.
4.01