[Davew]

Incidentally, you can tell that the aircraft in that picture on the first page was converted from a Vc, it still has the position light aft of the radio mast. Which would mean it's probably a Merlin 61 engine, though possbily a 63.

[Davew]

so the wing of the IXC and IXE was the same, just the installed "boombooms" were different?

you spawned a dream of our "ingame" IXC with the short scoop and rounded rudder... dont destroy my illusion now!

hold on, wasnt there a spoit flown with a beer keg under the belly at one special occasion? 8) :lol:

No, the wings themselves were slightly structurally different in order to accomodate the different types of armament. The 'e' wing didnt have the provision for the 4 .303" machine guns outboard of the cannon for example. Also, when only two cannon were fitted, the 'c' wing mounted them in the inner cannon bay, the 'e' in the outer. This was due to problems when the bomb racks were fitted to the earlier wing.

An ingame IXc with short scoop and rounded rudder would still be historically accurate, they were used from July 1942 until about mid 43 when the vokes aero-vee filter was fitted to the IX.

I think the performances of the Spits could be addressed, there doesnt seem to be a lot of difference between the models at all in terms of altitude performance... but i could be wrong.

Oh, and yes... there were a number of flights of Spits crossing to the allied forces in france with 'special' cargoes

[Redcanuck]

So we want a new slot plane called the Spitfire F Mk IX with Merlin 61, 63 or 63a engine.

And the visual model would be either Ranwere's modded Mk IX or a Mk Vb or Vc with a Mk IX nose.

Just to be clear :lol: :wink:

[Redcanuck]

Well I was just trying to summarize things for Waggel..... honest :wink:

But I can admit that I have been infected with Bearcat's gimmegimmegimme virus :lol:

Still the prospect of taking an early Mk IX against the new FW 190 A3 is exciting.

One of the truly classic matchups of the war!

[GBrutus]

Still the prospect of taking an early Mk IX against the new FW 190 A3 is exciting.

One of the truly classic matchups of the war!

+1

[CUJO_1970]

Cool, why make spitfire pilots suffer through the reality that was the SpitV against the FW190A-3 and the fully rated FW190A-4! :lol:

Let's pretend there were plenty of IX flying around the whole time just so the Spitty fans don't get their feelings hurt :lol:

Ahhh...the glorious spring/summer of 1942...the skies full of Spitfire IX...oh the mammories.

[Davew]

Cool, why make spitfire pilots suffer through the reality that was the SpitV against the FW190A-3 and the fully rated FW190A-4! :lol:

Let's pretend there were plenty of IX flying around the whole time just so the Spitty fans don't get their feelings hurt :lol:

Ahhh...the glorious spring/summer of 1942...the skies full of Spitfire IX...oh the mammories.

Perhaps, rather than being sarcastic, check your timelines first.
The 190A4 entered service the same month as the MKIX did with 64 Sqn, July 1942. Interestingly, I believe that the A3 only entered service in about March 1942, so there were only about 4 months where the A3 held total sway. And only for three of those was the RAF conducting offensive sweeps over France.

Granted, the MKV was still present as a low level attack aircraft in 1944 (not in the interceptor role), but not in large numbers, and production had been stopped in '42.

So the sky was just as full of the MKIX as it was of the A4, probably moreso, given that the IX was the sole Spit on the lines at the time and the urgency given to getting it into service.

And Mammaries are breasts.

[I/JG27_Waggel]

And Brian Adams was singing: The summer of fourty two (oooh yeeeeah) .... ok joke

Redcanuck is right. We want to create a Spit F MK IX. The first real answer to the Focke Wulf.
I read somewhere (so be carefull, it does not have to be right) that the RAF wanted to bring the Spit VIII but this projet took many time (dont no the reason). The spit IX was something like a compromise, temporary solution or emergency solution. But the Mk IX proved very well and the release of the spit VIII could wait. The Spit VIII had a tropical filter, so most planes went to south east asia. Only a few stayed in Eurpoe.

First, the Mk IX was fitted with normal wings, later cutted wingend and long wingends for flying in high altitudes. The .50 MG also came later. First MK IX where fitted with two 20 mm cannons and 4 .303 MG. Next thing is motor: On the one hand side I can read, the Mk IX was fitted with the merlin 60 series. This should in include merlin 61 and the ohter two motors named by Redcanuck.

Perhaps we can make a little chronological tree of Spit Mk IX versions to get an overview in the spitfire jungle.

In the long run, it whould be nice to have the complete spitfire production line in the IL-2 planeset.

[Davew]

Ok, brief chronology.

Spitfire MKIX starts with MKIII. This aircraft was designed to evaluate fitting the Merlin 60 series engine with the two stage/two speed supercharger to the Spitfire. Was to lead to the MKVII and MKVIII which were supposed to be definitive versions of the Spit. Used a slightly modified V airframe.

February 1942 - Due to the threat posed by the Focke Wulf, urgency was given to fitting the Merlin 61 to the Spitfire Vc airframe with as few changed as possible, using the information from the earlier MKIII such as the symmetrical radiator arrangement proposed for the VII/VIII

February 26 1942 - First test aircraft flown

June 1942 - MKIX enters production with Merlin 61

July 1942 - MKIX enters squadron service with 64Sqn.

Initially, 280 Vc airframes were converted to MKIXs. These aircraft distinguishable from later IXs by identification light on the spine, wider cannon blisters, u/c indicator on the top of the wing towards the trailing edge. Later aircraft did not have these features.

1943 - From the beginning of 1943 the Merlin 61 was replaced in the F.IX by the Merlin 63. Minor differences only, no designation change.

March 1943 - Spitfire LF.IX with the Merlin 66 entered service. This was the major production variant of the MKIX and the engine was optimised for lower altitude work.

March 1943 - Spitfire VII enters service with a redesigned fuselage, extra fuel capacity, retractable tail wheel, modified ailerons and horn balances and with the broad chord and pointed rudder. This rudder adapted for use on Spitfire IX from about this point.

June 1943 - Spitfire VIII enters service .Similar to the VII and with the same strengthening and aerodynamic improvements as the VII that were lacking from the IX. Importantly for the IX though, the Voke aero-vee tropical filter (which had been specifically designed for the VIII) entered service with this aircraft. The filter was then adapted for the MKIX and used on production IXs from about this time.

August 1943 - Production of Merlin 63 powered F.IX discontinued.

Early 1944 - Spitfire HF.IX enters service with Merlin 70 engine, optimised for high altitude work. Only about 400/500 produced.

August 1944 - 'e' wing with 2 cannon and 2 .5" machine guns begins to be fitted to Spitfire IXs, creating the IXe. Earlier aircraft retrospectively designated IXc. Up until this point all MK.IX aircraft had been fitted with the 'c' wing using either the 4 cannon or 2 cannon and four machine gun armament. The 8 machine gun option available with the 'c' wing was never fitted to the MKIX.

September/October 1944 - MKXVI enters production and service. Essentially a MK.IX, the XVI was fitted with the Merlin 266 (an American Packard built Merlin 66. The prefix '2' was used because the 266 used metric measurements and required different tools). The slight differences between the merlin 66 and the Packard Merlin 266 required the XVI to have a slightly bulged upper engine cowling. This revised cowling was also used on IX aircraft from this point. All MKXVI aircraft entered service with the 'e' wing and with clipped wingtips. Referred to as Spitfire LF.XVIe.

January/February 1945 - 'Bubble' canopies and cut down rear fuselage introduced to the MKIX/XVI.

Couple of notes:
Clipped wings did not relate to the engine optimisation. While many (most, i think) LF models used the clipped wingtips, some did not. Even some of the XVI aircraft had the standard wingtips fitted at squadron level. HF. Models of the SpitIX didn't use the extended wingtips of the VII, as they were found to offer little benefit.

The four cannon variant of the IX was quite rare, but did exist. The MKIXc and the MKVIII couldn't carry bombs under the wings while the four cannon were fitted though, due to the thickness of the wing. It was for that reason that the cannon were moved to the outboard bays on the 'e' wing.

[I/JG27_Waggel]

Wouw hock:

Very good work. Very good.

I think we can work very well with this. We perhaps should begin with the July MK IX and with the (did they have triple A? :-D) 280 Vc mods.

Do we have any performance data responding to both aircrafts? Next question is: Which existing spitfire could be optical near to both variants.

We have some ingame Spit Vc and I read and saw, that there is a modificated spitfire which perhaps can be used too.

First stop whould be the Spitfire F MK IX with new Merlin 63 motor.

In summary we whould have 3 Spitfire MK IX versions up to early 1943. Later there can be done other spits based on those 3 basic slots.

Whould that be a good start?

[Redcanuck]

Perhaps the July 1942 Merlin 61 spit could be a converted Mk Vc with the nose of a Mk VIII and the larger radiator under the right(?) wing and the later Merlin 63 spit could be Ranwere's Mk IX Mod.

Here is some info I ran across http://home.epix.net/~cap14/spit9v109g.html

[GBrutus]

Perhaps the July 1942 Merlin 61 spit could be a converted Mk Vc with the nose of a Mk VIII and the larger radiator under the right(?) wing and the later Merlin 63 spit could be Ranwere's Mk IX Mod.

Here is some info I ran across http://home.epix.net/~cap14/spit9v109g.html

Nice idea, though it would be more straight forward to splice the tail and rear fuselage of the Vc onto the VIII. Problem with this is we will be left with the aero-vee filter. I think Ranwer's early Mk IX mod would be the better approach.

[I/JG27_Waggel]

@ Redcanuck:

The dark blue line merlin 61 performancedata is +- 5 km/h the same thing that I have found in one book. The corner points are the same. I will calculate the other perfomance data into metrical system and than I will make a first graphic. Perhaps we still have other sources to compare.

@ GBrutus: copy

[Davew]

Ranwers mod pretty much simulates the Spitfire with the Merlin 61/63 except for those airframes converted from Vs.

The model would also work with just some minor visual changes for the converted Vs - mostly just the cannon blisters and identification light.
They would need different flight models as well.

But would it be possible to accurately represent the 'c' wing for the IX? In other words to have both the options of the 2 cannon four machine guns or the four cannon model?
The disadvantage to the four cannon model would be that it would only carry a bomb under the fuse, and not under the wings like the 2 cannon model.
Would be good if that could be done for the VIII as well actually......

I have a fair bit of data around (love the Spits ) but I don't have a scanner, so it may be difficult to get it to you. At least in graphical form.

Just a quick comparison between the V and IX.

Mk V F.Mk IX
Merlin 45, 46, 50 Merlin 61 or 63

1440 hp(45)
1190 hp(46) 1560 hp(61)
1230 hp(50) 1690 hp(63)

Length
29

[I/JG27_Waggel]

@ Davew:

Thank you for your post. You forgot the tea bag modification in connection with the 4 hispanos and the bomb at a Spit VIII. I never whould write the word disatvantage regarding to the 4 hispanos :-D.


Performance data belongs to which engine? The performance over alt 65 looks like HF and at sealevel very poor. The best thing is always a graphic or several achievement basic data. Otherwise you draw the performance line throught performance breaks down caused by compressor change.

Ooops, bad English, I hope you will understand :roll: