[Acog]

Please take this as my own opinion, and not a slight on anyones work.

I think it's time to get into the core of il2 and fix whats been broken for ages. The AI. We all know they have their "own" FM etc, and defy all logic and physics too. This has been the reason for 90% of the folks I know and their shelving of IL2 in any form. Now we all know they were given super powers to allow them to exceed their a/c's vnE becuase they are to dumb not to exceed it. And we all know how damned annoying it is.

What I propose is this, and keep in mind that I propose this from the standpoint of a SEOW lover, a DCG lover and a nice good long campaign lover.

1. with all the amazing things that have been fixed, is it even doable from a code/mod standpoint?

2. If it is, could each a/c have its own "AI fm" assigned to it?

3. If I was to start playing with the AI on my own, where would I find the files that make them dumb, so I may attempt a IQ transplant on them.

4. Is this against the rules and considered bad juju?

If the AI could be even brushed up and polished a bit, that may help tons. I'd like them to not exceed their vnE ever, not be able to crank out full flaps at 400mph, not being able to do things that are just plain silly to see.

I looked in that mod that claimed to put back the 3.04 AI, but the files confuse me, and I cant seem to open up a class file into human readable form.


Do I want the impossible? =)

[Acog]

Well, I managed to open up the class files and found out why 1c never touched the AI much. Sheesh, what a mess. And not knowing anything about java, I'm leary of screwing with them only to break it outright.

[Fincuan]

First of all forget about the mod that claims putting 3.04 AI in, it's hogwash. Close that book and never open it again :lol:

The game doesn't read the .class files as such, they need to be rehashed. Rehashing them all "out of the box" produces a CTD when getting to dot-distance in 4.08, but iirc people have been succesful in making the game read SOME of the files. I think there's something on that in one of the 3.04 AI-threads.

I too did take a look at those files, but didn't dare to do much due to my very limited Java-experience and lack of time. Lots of else-if statements that's for sure

Are you btw the same Acog who frequents Frugal's?

[Catahoulak9]

The ability to tune AI behavior is definitely the Holy Grail of mods for us off line guys. For me this is the most frustrating aspect of the sim since I do not fly on line. I know a lot of pretty bright people have given this a go and unfortunately gotten no where with it. Maybe we're expecting too much from a computer program.

[Guest]

The ability to tune AI is the holy grail of programming for games full stop. It has to be designed to appear intelligent, random and challenging. IL-2 AIs are well known for their multiple barrel rolls and perfect trimming. But then there are times when they fly as perfect sitting ducks and then other times when a rookie or average pilot will fly quite well and prove a difficult kill.

The problem is, being a random system, it produces a whole degree of variation, unfortunately this distribution tends to be in the annoying/stupid end. That why we see rookies who can do 50 barrel rolls in a row and aces who can have pilot headshots at 500m. When it works, it's great! When it doesn't it drives us up the wall!

My idea is that there should be greater control over the variability of the AI. I'm not sure how it is coded (i.e. a list of pre-defined scripts for each level or random factors for each level), but the aim of whoever works on this should be consistency and realism of AI skills.

[Acog]

Yep I'm the same one from frugs. =)

Maybe there is a java guru whos a die hard offliner who could help out a bit? I just think with all the talent involved in mod making these days, it's a shame that no major effort is being put into fixing the craptastic AI. Not that I dislike the current projects, hardly, I just would love to be able to play offline without wanting to toss my x52 out the window from sheer frustration at the AI.

And it sounds so simple to fix, but having looked at the code now..perhaps its not, or it is and I just cant see it.

Dont let them make 397 passes over a bad guy airfield. If the 5th AF did that they would have been wiped out in a week. Low level, split up, choose targets, strafe on the way in, drop whatever on their heads and keep on going and going and going home.

AI flying in formation with badguys since they are hell bent on shooting the one up front, not the one whos eating your ass alive. And ace's can hit you in the eyes at 600 yards in a 12g turn in a rain cloud, but will unload every round 10ft behind you if you go into a gentle wide banking turn.


This has to be fixable, it just has to. (I cling to hope haha)

[Guest]

1st Download this: http://rapidshare.com/files/87328032/pf304_AI.rar.html

2nd Follow this instructions:

-CREATE A copy of "STD" folder and rename it putting a "-" before it
-extract from above d/L pf3.04_AI ONLY the -air- folder
-pur this -air - folder into the new "-STD/com/maddox/il2"
-create a quick combat 1-vs 2, or 4 vs 4, (as you like but SAME skill level for all A.I.) saving it with name "A.I. TEST" (or whatever you want)
-QUIT GAME COMPLETELY.
-put double "--" in front of the original STD folder (only one "-" will make window S.O. tell you there' jet that file)
-erase the "-" in front of the new modded STD folder that contains "air" folder.

Launch and try the same previous quick A.I. test mission and look now at differences in A.I behaviours (because now it's from 3.04 now): no more barrel rolls, no more A.I. high speed enemy planes, new attacking manevers from A.I. (more front attack from 12 o' clock to you ecc..). regards.

_________________
FALCO

[Fincuan]

If those are the .class files again, then for the umpteenth time they do not work without hashing. The game does not see them, so if you really want to do something about the AI then forget those as such. You might mean good falco, but it just doesn't work that way.

If one wants to try those then forget about at least Maneuver.class, it won't work as such in 4.08 or .09. Get QTim's classhasher and hash the .class-files with it, then drop the hashed files as a mod to your mods-folder.

[fly_zo]

...so, here we go again .... two beta mod threads regarding Ai wasn't enough ?


Please, don't turn this in yet another placebo/real arguing thread cos it just doesn't do any good to anyone .... and will get locked


To all newcomers which may read : please take any unofficial advice regarding installation procedures with extra caution and do make backup before any action .... cos it may seriously mess up your game installation.


regards
Z

[Guest]

If those are the .class files again, then for the umpteenth time they do not work without hashing. The game does not see them, so if you really want to do something about the AI then forget those as such. You might mean good falco, but it just doesn't work that way.

If one wants to try those then forget about at least Maneuver.class, it won't work as such in 4.08 or .09. Get QTim's classhasher and hash the .class-files with it, then drop the hashed files as a mod to your mods-folder.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...so, here we go again .... two beta mod threads regarding Ai wasn't enough ?


Please, don't turn this in yet another placebo/real arguing thread cos it just doesn't do any good to anyone .... and will get locked


To all newcomers which may read : please take any unofficial advice regarding installation procedures with extra caution and do make backup before any action .... cos it may seriously mess up your game installation.


regards
Z
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this "mod discussion section"? So I hope here everyone with respect of forum regules could write on..or I'm mistaking something?

What I've posted is working on my Pc (and I'm not the only who have this mod functioning following these instructions) and also I've not obliged anyone to mess his game as everyone can make his own experiment with his responsability about this, or is there any "copyright" or "broken warranty" from AAA about mods? Regards.

[Fincuan]

I'd hate to repeat the same thing again and again, but anyone who thinks they have the above mod working please read this: viewtopic.php?t=8816&start=29

That sums it up pretty well.

The bad thing here is as long as people believe in the placebo-effect they're not going to do anything that would result in real improvements on the AI. The good thing is that I doubt anyone, with enough undestranding of Java and Oleg's AI to touch those files, believes in that at all.

Myself not included here, my skills are way below what is required to make any big changes, at least at the moment, even though I have all the classes decompiled and waiting for a miracle :lol:

[fly_zo]

.... locked

Z