[VF101hawk]

Ive been asking now and then why the artillery in the game has so short firing distance and why dont somebody redo the range for the artillery to the real deal.
For some odd reason people almost go high wire or dont answer at all to my questions and i really cant understand the big deal in doing so.
The artillery is AI and so not user controlled and can therefor not be used as a cheat in my opinion.
As its now its impossible to do a lets say dynamic campaign on a coastal map as the boats(that use real gun range) will blow the heck out of the atillery on shore long before they even opened up fire. this in my opinion takes away alot of the realism, realism i thought was something that people really wanted.
And no im not sulking about oh it fired one meter longer in real life and so on, here we are talking about 3 and more times the distance that they shoot in the game.
If there is a golden rule that firing ranges shall not be edited i can understand that for the planes and tanks(as these are more or less correct to real life ranges), but again i cant understand it for the artillery.
And if its still a no to this , what then about taking guns from the ships and mount them in the bunkers??
Will this be allowed??
If not then all the new planes in the game should also be banned in my opinion as they are put to gether by using different parts of planes from the game.
Yes i know this is a aircraft sim, but it is allowed to wish it also could function on other layers too right!
And with the new moving dogfight mod it would be a real boost to the realism having real working bunkers and atillery at or in coastal fortifications.
Or even inland.
This due to much larger maps then the stock il2 maps that came with the game original.
So is there any modder out there with the balls to take the challange and redo or make realistisk artillery and fortifications that accually work as they did or is there no interest for this??

[dunkelgrun]

It's certainly possible; I fly in coops that have heavy artillery in coastal bunkers that are deadly to ships coming too close. However, from what I've heard, a 'difference of opinion' between the modder and the AAA team would make it unlikely that they'll get uploaded here.

:cheers:

[vampire_pilot]

no.

only own slot - so to speak.

why?
it would mess up basically all templates and missions that are built on the current values. artillery will end up hitting targets all over a map. we also have a lot of small and scaled maps in game which would easily be overshot. So keep it as it is. if a new gun is added it is up to the creator what range to give it but do not touch existing weapons.

I had a mission problem once where a coastal 8.8 in france was hammering the british coast sinking a convoy that was supposed to be target to some stukas on canons map even now.
I'd rather go with the as-is range.

[VF101hawk]

Ty for answering guys.
Well that problem is with the ships as is yes.
Ive played on large maps where the airbase way inland is getting pounded by the ship atillery while the coast atillery dont even open up fire towards the ships as they are out of range. this gets a bit odd for me.
But yes it would maybe be nice with a abilety to correct the range on the atillery more or less like the AAA so it wouldnt affect allready built maps. but still giving new mission builders the abilety to use correct range for the atillery??

[{HVY-E}Jinxx]

Gents,

I am a REAL artilleryman by trade. 13M, US Army. What you are failing to realize is that the longest range artillery in WWII were either Ships (16" guns or better) at appx 25-30 Miles, (Over the Horizon), or the very large artillery pieces that Germany tried using such as the Paris Gun.

Standard artillery, 105-155mm only have a max range of about 19-24km (11-14miles) respectively. (That's with unassisted rounds). The 75-88mm guns are only out to about 10-15km (6-9miles).

** Unassisted rounds are rounds that are fired with normal propellant.
** Assisted rounds are rounds that have a rocket boster. Commonlly called a RAP round (Rocket Assisted Projectile).

From What I've seen in game so far, the ranges of the guns is pretty dead on. The ranges I've given you are for modern Artillery, which has even better range than it's predecessors of WWII except for Naval Gunfire. The rounds used on Battleships then and into the early 90's when all the Iowa Class BB's were decommissioned, was unchanged from WWII to 1992.

[vampire_pilot]

thanks for the excurse.

proofs the point of doublecheck before crying wrong data or fondle with it (can I hear FM is wrong?)
I actually do belief the point where Battleships shoot way further than anything else.

Can we hear the opposite site, which gun has what ingame range that is off?
and what would be the correct range?

I do belief some people want to go into that if there really is a realism issue but I am strictly against fondling with existing weaponery, realism or not.

actually... the poll beats reality with a stick (sorry, got tempted...)

[{HVY-E}Jinxx]

Yes, the poll votes for realisim.
But the artillery is already realistic. People don't seem to understand that. They see the movies and think that artillery can fire 90miles and hit a paper plate.

I do this for a living, hence I can tell you what it should really be doing.
I'm not a pilot, therefore, I don't comment on flight models as I have no real basis for comparison.


You've voted for realistic artillery, well guess what, You already have realistic artillery.

[Jg3_Hartmann]

Yes, thats true...maybe not 100% realistic, but realistic enough.
A leFH 18 won

[Brophmeister]

Perhaps the term "artillery" could be extended to cover anti aircraft pieces as well? I am fairly certain that the Flak 88 had an effective ceiling of 37,000 feet (Flak 41 1939 variant) and the 3.7 inch gun had a ceiling of 32,000 feet. In game both seem to top out much lower than this.

[VF101hawk]

Well the largest guns in the game on land has a range of max 6000 meters.
I also wrote if it wasnt possible would it then be possible to take guns from the boats and mount them into bunkers and/or fortifications for use at coast for protection..
Maybe you are a redneck whoms never seen the sea but here in norway the germans accually had large guns firing at convois passing by, so also in the rest of the coastal area in europa.

I also know that pin point accuracy isnt achived with artillery ww2 style and therefor you have them in numbers shelling an area. maybe in USA movies they are pin point accurate to enhance patriotism i dont know but not in real life. and that wasnt what i was asking for or saying was it??


[M30_122mm]
Description USSR's "howitzer" (122mm, year 1938)
Icon fieldgun
AttackMaxDistance 6000.0 (in game)
real max distance:Maximum range 11.8 km (7.33 mi)

[ML20]
Description USSR's "howitzer" ML-20 (152mm, year 1937)
Icon fieldgun
AttackMaxDistance 6000.0 (in game)
real max distance: Maximum range 17.23 km (10.7 mi)

[Howitzer_150mm]
Description Germany "howitzer" (150mm, year 1918)
Icon fieldgun
AttackMaxDistance 6000.0 (in game)
real max distance: Maximum range 8,000 metres (8,700 yd)
This one was a little harder to find data on as there where several guns with different range that was 150 mm and built around 1918 so using the data on the Skoda 150mm model 1918.

[M2A1_105mm]
Description US howitzer M2A1 (105mm)
Icon fieldgun
AttackMaxDistance 6000.0 (in game)
real max distance: Maximum range 11,270 m (6.9 mi)

[VF101hawk]

the effective celing of the 88 mm(flak 18) was about 7,900 m. check wikipedia
Comparatively, the 88 was not as powerful as its Allied counterparts. In the anti-aircraft role it fired a 9.2 kg (20.3-pound) shell at a muzzle velocity of 790 m/s (2,600 ft/s) to an effective ceiling of 7,900 m (26,000 feet) (at maximum 10,600 m, 32,000 ft).early models.

88mm flak 41
Rheinmetall responded with a new 88 mm L/71 design with a longer cartridge. It fired a 20.7-pound shell at a muzzle velocity of 3,280 ft/s (1000 m/s), giving it an effective ceiling of 11,300 m (37,000 feet) (maximum was 15,000 m, 48,000 ft). It also featured a lower silhouette on its turntable mounting

[Gijsko]

Yes, the poll votes for realisim.
But the artillery is already realistic. People don't seem to understand that. They see the movies and think that artillery can fire 90miles and hit a paper plate.

I do this for a living, hence I can tell you what it should really be doing.
I'm not a pilot, therefore, I don't comment on flight models as I have no real basis for comparison.


You've voted for realistic artillery, well guess what, You already have realistic artillery.

Actually, as hawk pointed out, all land based artillery will only open fire within 6000m. For large howitzers that's quite a bit short, I would say. And, the annoying bit is that you can adjust the range in the technics.ini file, but any range over 6000m will be ignored. I think that's what he's talking about.

[dunkelgrun]

Well the largest guns in the game on land has a range of max 6000 meters.
I also wrote if it wasnt possible would it then be possible to take guns from the boats and mount them into bunkers and/or fortifications for use at coast for protection..

I'm with you. During WW2 there were railway guns that traded shells across the English Channel, and that's a minimum distance of 21 miles.

-from Wikipedia:

Maximum range in shipboard mountings was 32,500 yards (29,720 m) (30 degrees elevation) but coastal artillery mounting with higher elevations could reach 44,150 yards (40,370 m). Two coastal guns (Clem and Jane) were mounted near Wanstone Farm in Kent in the 1940s. Five guns were mounted in Singapore in the 1930's.

This article refers to naval 15" guns as mounted on HMS Hood. So the mod should be take the guns off the battleship and place them in the bunkers. Which, as I mentioned above, something like has already been done for the coops I fly in.

:cheers:

[VF101hawk]

what i want really is a posebilety to make a more realistic campaign(s) around countryes with a coast.
im not saying the FM is wrong even if some here try to make it so that this is what im saying(grow up)
The FM is the flight modeling and isnt something im talking about at all, also meantioned in my first post, but maybe a pair of glasses for some readers are requierd?? 8)
With more correct ranges, or even if making coastal/ fortifications with guns from the ships we could make more realistick dynamic campaigns from historical facts, or just simple coops.
I at least find it a bit odd being shelled by a boat as mentioned before fare away inland from a boat while there are nothing that shoots back at the boat from the coast.
The large battleships may have had superior gun range but then these get a first priorety to sink so they dont ruin the forts and secondary the forts will take care of the smaller ships with theire guns..

take a look here http://www.nuav.net/maa.html

[magot]

There will be propably a first real artillery a railgun Leopold which I build as new mesh.
Was used in Italy against US troops by Anzio and in Russian front.