[Billfish]

Hi All;

Well after experimenting with the Ki-43's, I was finally able to generate a template to my liking for Ki-61's and am about to generate roughly 50 AI skins for the 68th & 78th Hikousentai with correct markings and so on.....I'm up in the air though about one aspect of the template. That being which shade looks best as bare metal with some slight oxidation. Still have a tad more tweeking to do, yet I'd like input as to which version looks best to you all.

Contained in the .zip here: http://www.speedyshare.com/773819133.html , are 3 skin files. One labeled "TEST" which has a slightly platinum hue to it, the other "TESTA" which has a tad more bluish tint...Finally the template/skin I struggled with for some time listed as "TestOLD" just for chuckles and to show why I've held off so long.

Let me know which of TEST or TESTA looks best....and thats what I'll generate the New Guinea Hien skinpack from.....Thanks for the help!

CREDIT: Though heavily altered the base template was supplied by Jesters Ink. Internal components with some alterations comes from Pappy Boyington who never sent me the template we agreed upon....That all he finished with my research, so it's included (though with more changes coming)...Finally the last template integrated in is my own based off of the very first released for the Ki-61 many years ago by an unknown maker. However credit is due there due to it has been the basis for all others since.

K2

[Fly!]

TestA.

[Bee]

I think the TEST one is probably the better of the three. It helps if they are more subtle in their lines and rivets especiallyif you are flying them. Looking out over the wing and seeing panzer-grade weathering is quite the immersion killer. I was messing with the same template and toned down a lot of the details for some of my own skins. I was quite pleased with the result.

[Poltava]

Great idea! We need more ki-61 NON-244th Sentai skins! And not least New Guinea skins. When I once built a New Guinea Campaign for the Hien (see here: http://mission4today.com/index.php?name ... ls&id=3382) I think I actually only found TWO skins from this important Theatre of War.

Will D/L and test!

[Guest]

I like the TEST one, myself....

[Poltava]

They are both very nice, and I look forward to seeing them fly over New Guinea, but I think that if I had to choose one, it would be TEST.

Really excellent work!

[Ivan Putski]

After checking them out under different lighting conditions, I think I will go with the TEST one.

[Billfish]

Well thanks all for your input! What I have decided to change follows after my reasons.

After a long review of a number of photographs and checking the skin with and without camouflage, it struck me how different in some regards the Ki-61 was vs. say U.S. aircraft though much of it a result of the manufacturing side of things.

First off, the Kawasaki manufacturing and assembly plants were much dirtier then U.S.. Though alone meaning little it did translate into the aircrafts skin being stained and buffed (though when I say buffed I mean taking any sheen from it). Looking over aircraft assembly from both sides showed clearly that while the U.S. aircraft must of gone through cleaning/polishing processes, the Japanese did not. More so the aluminum used was less bright/more dull as applied that in itself reducing its reflective properties. In contrast to say steel which when polished tends to take on a lighter shade or becoming brighter, aluminum tends to look darker, in both cases naturally considering backgrounds influencing the result. However, when corroding steel will tend to shift darker and aluminum to lighter, even to white when fully oxidized.

Add to the above the Ki-61's aluminum had a slightly bluish hue to it (making it look darker), plus the staining and so on. Lastly regarding the aluminum in general a factory fresh Hien had a clear coat of varnish/lacquer applied to it that had an ever so slight yellowish or brown tint.........Past that I needed to consider staining by exhaust & gunpowder, abrasion from coral/sand/dirt, daily rains, sea air, contact with oils and fluids and lastly copious soot in the air.

As to rivets though the Japanese actually more advanced in flush rivet technology (were one of the first my understanding), rivets on Ki-61 tended to turn dark. So though flush with the skin did show as contrasting spots. In kind screws had to be considered being of steel. (As a side note though I'll not be doing it on this template the Japanese also would mark when a screw was set in place painting a line top and bottom in red to match the slot position).........Rivet application did cause a deformation of the aluminum. That tended to open seams, cause low spots over supporting structures, and high spots which became more evident over time causing the surface to deform further as the metal stretched and shrank (part of that also being manufacturing environment vs. that where used, cooler at the former, much hotter at the latter).


So.....

First off to simulate the fresh aluminum and considering the varnish applied to upper surfaces split the hues of platinum (TEST) and blue (TESTA) to where upper surfaces have a more yellow or tint and lower blue. This is difficult to notice in that the base template will utilize common staining of dirt/mud on the bottom due to the type of fields used (it very obvious yet hiding the blue hue on the rear fuselage and elevator).

Next I boosted reflectivity slightly through a number of methods considering that it is not a mirror finish like some wish to see, yet simply a brighter result. Brightening reflection layers slightly, darkening shadows very slightly, removing more of one of 3 grime layers (which darkens the aircraft where removed it becoming brighter and producing a reflection enhancement of sorts).

Rivet line shading was left intact as was panel due to rivet highlighting. However to reduce the 3d look of the skin rivets, I reduced the contrast between the light and dark versions. Now I tried this many times, frankly the rivets need to be there to match real examples yet simply dark.....So a compromise was made as the dark dots alone look too artificial, the light adding too much 3d, so toned down/darkened the light.

A skin deformation layer was added to show stretching and such. Some panel lines were reduced in intesnsity, though I intend to enhance others, others would take too much of a rework for my skills so I simply lightened them to not be so contrasting.

As mentioned by others, the tough part is having a gray shade yet adding white (which is really what happens) and dark shades to make a reflection when in direct light, yet not have the aluminum look white and in contrast too intentionally gray when not......

Still working with it when I have something worthwhile to show I'll post it.....Though it won't be to the gloss of U.S. fighters, yet in kind to the degree we see in most relic photos even upon capture (those today are 60 years of wear, most captured are either after having sat for some time, to even polished as the paint was removed to ship them off for testing).

Thanks for your help,

K2

[Poltava]

Could it be possible for you to throw in a skin or two for Sentai 19? :oops:

I'm currently working on a campaign portraying their short and brutal tour of duty in the Philippines, during the momentous autumn of 1944 (and using Delvpiers great Philippines map).

I have found only one Sentai 19 skin out there on the web, and I'm sad to say it wasn't too great... And your skins would like lovely in wild dog-fights over Negros...

[Billfish]

Hi Poltava;

Though there may be just one skin there are a number of photographs of this unit, and in kind the 17th hikousentai their sister unit together making up the 22nd Hikoudan. Now at first blush I thought I could whip you one out today in that the bare metal meant little on the first photo I found, yet in short order I ran into many others and it became clear that bare metal will be extremely important to make these skins.

To that end, I'll keep on the path I'm on and finish the template. Then make the 68th & 78th of the 14th Hikoudan (which I've needed to do for a couple years), then will work on some 17th & 19th of the 22nd Hikoudan after in that they'll be as complex as the others................However, know this.....They will be wrong. Every photograph I have found of 19th aircraft are Ki-61-I-Tei or 1d. Meaning, it is a different model then what we have (which is rediculous as it was the most produced).

Would be better if someone here would make that model it only needing a different tail, longer nose, and different guns which exist on the Ki-100. But your call.

K2

[Billfish]

Originally posted by R_Target:Rivet lines are overdefined on all IMO for an NMF skin, but again, they could be just right with some green in there.

Fair enough, and repeated by others elsewhere so back at it, a big part once more re-evaluating photographs and some specifications
in some research papers by the true Ki-61 experts over at www.j-aircraft.com .

There was one aspect of Jester's template once I got it working that I REALLY liked....Just as said above the absense of rivet "lines", yet I
couldn't get it to where I wanted it....In kind his template a tad more factory fresh then what I wanted.

Okay, so I began trying to adjust layers from other templates that gave me some of the effects I wanted. In this case darker rivets,
and more intense panel lines. It looked awful....Then tried turning off layers. First the dark rivet lines that go over paint, that
looked really odd. Then the opposite light shading which cost me some deformation yet I kept at it. Then a couple other
layers......and I was left with a rather minimal template YET I liked the smoother effect.

The problem was with each layer turned off more and more rivet detail was lost and could not darken what was there. Fine, made a new copy
layer of his rivets, then darkened it.....Ah better.

TESTB before removing layers, TESTD before rivet darkening, TESTE after new rivet layer.

http://www.speedyshare.com/724220175.html

At this point I'm thinking of adding a third, and seeing how it looks when slightly blurred. In kind I need to darken and enhance some of
the panel lines and access covers a bit.........SO this not done......Yet I'm thinking I like it more based on some
photographs considering the following:

A study was done by Mr. J. Long wherein he checked the average lifespan of a Ki-61 in New Guinea based upon known failure dates or when
so damaged either from accidents, malfunctions, shoot downs or attacked on the ground and found that on average the aircraft lasted 3-4
months......That's 3-4 months from the day they left the assembly line. So staging, then either flown island hopping or shipped to the
Philippines, then waiting to be picked up, flown on through the chain to Western New Guinea, prepped, then flown onto units. So not
a lot of action.

Below some good examples of bare metal Ki-61. The first two from Akeno I believe or perhaps the factory, and no doubt in good shape to show
off the aircraft. The last what I think may be a crash and or fire victim.....In between where I want to go.

K2

[Poltava]

Sorry, I didn't know that. Of course I don't expect you to start a completely new project. That's a pretty tall order...

Thanks for the info, BTW.

PS. Do you know of any photos showing the sister Sentai, Sentai 17, in the Philippines?

[Billfish]

Sorry, I didn't know that. Of course I don't expect you to start a completely new project. That's a pretty tall order...

Thanks for the info, BTW.

PS. Do you know of any photos showing the sister Sentai, Sentai 17, in the Philippines?

You mis-understand.....
I'd be glad to do it. However until someone here alters a Ki-61-I-Ko/Otsu/Hei to make a Ki-61-I-Tei, the model of aircraft will be incorrect....

Yet if you're good with that fine by me

As to a 17th Hien I'll have to take a look yet there is a picture showing their marking on the j-aircraft site and oddly a Ki-48 assumed to be a transport used by them with the same marking!

K2

[Poltava]

Yes I am good with that. Compromises of life and campaign building

I will make do with the existing IL-2 models, rather than hope for a new variant. And I will also make do with the rather poor skin I found (and it's tough, now that I've seen what a REAL Hien skin should look like...)

Anyway: good luck with your excellent project. And thanks for the tip!

[Billfish]

I will make do with the existing IL-2 models, rather than hope for a new variant. And I will also make do with the rather poor skin I found

Once more, you do not have to make due with the one skin as I will be glad to make them for you....
However I MUST get the base bare metal template correct first in that many of the 19th Aircraft show lots of bare metal.

If you wanted to add the skin names now in your campaign files they would be as follows:

AI-Ki61-19-C-1, AI-Ki61-19-C-2, AI-Ki61-19-C-3
AI-Ki61-19-1-1, AI-Ki61-19-1-2, AI-Ki61-19-1-3
AI-Ki61-19-2-1, AI-Ki61-19-2-2, AI-Ki61-19-2-3
AI-Ki61-19-3-1, AI-Ki61-19-3-2, AI-Ki61-19-3-3

The 17th Hikousentai however I'm not so sure they had different markings to denote Chuutai, so if it turns out just 1
marking, then they would be numbered as follows:

AI-Ki61-17-1-1, AI-Ki61-17-1-2, AI-Ki61-17-1-3.....................AI-Ki61-17-1-10, AI-Ki61-17-1-11, AI-Ki61-17-1-12.


Making 24 skins in all.

K2