[JG14_Jagr]

I'm like an 8 year old on Christmas eve and I admit that openly.. reading through the various threads on the subject of release dates I came up with the following..

-PeterD is waiting for the next version of the Aircraft Installer to release his Mig/Sabre for open testing.

-The guys working on the next Aircraft installer are waiting for the release of UI 1.2 to finalize and release their work.

-If the UI 1.2 guys say they are waiting for PeterD's Mig15 and F86 to be released first I am going to have a breakdown


Sorry, just bored silly at the moment

[Maico]

Actually, I am glad to see this post. I thought I was the only one losing sleep over the release of Peter D's MiG-15. I get to work everyday and check on this site to see if its there. I have never done this before. Then I pretend it does not matter. I eventually get to working LOL. I do believe there is a good plan and release is imminent. And I cant cry about something that is free. Peter D has brought us some great models. I am very great full for this community. This week I downloaded about five new a/c and I love them all. THANKS AAA. I just dont understand how some modelers crank out a zillion planes a month. The MIG is my most anticipated aircraft in IL2 EVER. So yes, thanks for this opportunity to jump on my soap box and say "MAN I WANT THE MIG BAD!!!!" I play on the Korea map at least two times a week. So there is my whine for this year.

I do believe you are right. Someone is waiting on something before the release.

[teamsniper1]

pleas explain

[BadPilot]

I am doing the same thing, waiting impatiently for the MiG-15, one of my favourite aircraft.

I am especially wondering what kind of FM it will get, everyone knows the MiG was way better than the Sabre! :wink:

BadPilot

[JG14_Jagr]

You just had to go start that argument didn't you! If the FM's are good (and I suspect they are) then its going to be tough since the models are the early versions where the disparity was the greatest.. The F86A5 and the Mig15 give you the max altitude advantage. By the time the F86F rolls around the advantage is very limited. Should make for some interesting flying though..

[steeldelete]

Ok guys I'll join in. I'll look for these two plains also daily. From what I see it must be fun.

[BadPilot]

Yes, I like to argue (or quarrel as my friends calls it).

The aerial war of the Korean war has always interested me, and especially the respective characteristics of the two antagonists. I have collected a large number of books and other information on this war.

What I find interesting is that recent information that has appeared after the fall of the iron curtain sheds new light on the conflict. It is now apparent that the oft-quoted 1.10 kill ratio of the Sabre versus the MiG-15 is just, for lack of a better word, western propaganda! An analysis of combat reports, Soviet loss lists and not least examination of US losses (found here: http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmkor/korwald.htm) reveals that it is much closer to 1:2 or perhaps even 1:1! I find that very interesting and worthy of examination from an historical point of view.

Why this disparity betwen original claims and what can be verified? If you allow, I'll give a few examples of such faulty US information regarding their losses.

For one thing there was the usual overclaiming on the US side, but even more improtantly it appears that many Sabre losses were somehow attributed to "ground fire" or other non-combat causes, even if it can be proven that the Sabre was lost in aerial combat. One prime example is F-86A Sabre BuNo 49-1319, which has this entry in the Korwald loss report:

Date of Loss: 511006
Tail Number: 49-1319
Aircraft Type: F-86A
Wing or Group: 4th Ftr-Int Gp
Circumstances of Loss: Hit by gnd fire 15 mi SW of Sinanju, crashed into the sea, bail out into Sinanju River

However, this particular Sabre was shot down by the top Korean ace, Yevgeny G. Pepelyayev! Also this Sabre did not crash into the sea but landed on some mud flats and was subsequently captured by the Soviets and taken to Russia for closer examination. A photo of the aircraft and more information about the combat itself may be seen here: http://www.acepilots.com/korea/yevgeny.html

I find it odd that a pilot reports being shot down by ground fire when in fact he was in an aerial combat in such a way that it cannot have been mistaken for "ground fire"! This is not the only example of this, another occured on the same day and combat as you can see on that webpage. F-86A BuNo 49-1267 was also shot down, not lost due to "engine failure".

What is the relevance to Il-2? Well, I think it clear that the alledged superiority of the Sabre over the MiG-15 is more or less a myth when flown by pilots of equal skills. The disparity of the two aircraft is relatively slight, though, and if the FMs are done right we will indeed have two aircraft where you really need to know the strength and weaknesses of yours and your opponent's aircraft in order to succeed!

Another thing I look forward to is blasting B-29s out of the sky with that armament!

BadPilot

[RAAF Steppie]

Yes I'm itching for these aircraft

[Freiwillige]

MiG 15 has a better climb rate, higher ceiling and better turn performance. But it is also more spin prone and not very stable at high G's and a terrible weapons platform.

F-86 has better armament for fighter vs fighter 6 .50 cals vs 2 slow firing heavy cannons designed to shoot down bombers on the MiG. F-86 has better stability in all axis. F-86 has superior gunsight.

Now the 10-1 Kill loss ratio of the F-86 vs Mig 15, It is not disputed and even admited by Russia.
The N. Koreans were new pilots in a new Airforce flying a new technology. They were meat on the table vs American experienced WWII veterans! Russia let a few Russian training pilots help and sent a few more. VS. Veteran Russian pilots there was no 10-1 kill ratio but it has still been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the F-86 came out on top of that fight too.

[RAAF Steppie]

F-86 has better armament for fighter vs fighter 6 .50 cals vs 2 slow firing heavy cannons designed to shoot down bombers on the MiG. F-86 has better stability in all axis. F-86 has superior gunsight.

If you read report the pilots complained about the .50 cals saying they lack punch and the mig-15 got a hit in you knew you where hit. It why when the RAAF made there F-86 they gave then 30mm canons

What was the biggest difference was not the aircraft but the pilot and the fact that they had better training and tactics this was the biggest difference between the aircrafts.

[norm]

Мне нужна МиГ

[ranting] the but ugly MiG 3 is no joy, and i can tolrate the mig 9 untill this comes out, but i wont stay with no lousy franken plain. [/ranting]

[Irish]

I've been doing much reading on the Korean Air War in anticipation of this.


One thing the F86 will be missing is radar bore-sighting. The other problem will be lack of air density above 30,000ft. Other than that, the IL2 engine will be great for Korea era simming.

I have no problem believing that Soviet pilots brought the USAF K/L ratio down to 1/1. The thing is once you add PLAF and NK pilots into the mix you start to get higher K/L ratios for the Sabre

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

Мне нужна МиГ

[ranting] the but ugly MiG 3 is no joy, and i can tolrate the mig 9 untill this comes out, but i wont stay with no lousy franken plain. [/ranting]

Please try to temper comments like that. Ranwers went to the effort of creating a frankenplane of the mig 15. At least you can fly it right now, even if a propper one from peterD is forthcoming. It seems rather ungreatful to refer to it as a "lousy frankenplane" when you could do no better, and the alternative is no Mig15 at all. Try showing a bit of gratitude towards what the modders are trying to achieve please. If you make any such other comments in this kind, I shall simply removed them.

[Triad773]

I'm enjoying the F 86 and MiG 15 while we wait (granted, with much anticipation of the more complete model )

I am very curious how the FMs will pan out in the end, and how will the runway limitations in maps may impact the long rolling takeoffs of these jets: sic- "Landing ground roll: 2,330 ft, (710 m)" per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-86_Sabre

I have yet to take off from a ground-based runway with the F-84, but understand with RATO it is considerably shorter. It is a stroke of genius for Flak to incorporate that feature to make it more playable in the current IL-2 regime . :pray:

Waiting (as patiently ) as possible

Triad

[RichardH]

Yes, I like to argue (or quarrel as my friends calls it).

The aerial war of the Korean war has always interested me, and especially the respective characteristics of the two antagonists. I have collected a large number of books and other information on this war.

What I find interesting is that recent information that has appeared after the fall of the iron curtain sheds new light on the conflict. It is now apparent that the oft-quoted 1.10 kill ratio of the Sabre versus the MiG-15 is just, for lack of a better word, western propaganda! An analysis of combat reports, Soviet loss lists and not least examination of US losses (found here: http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmkor/korwald.htm) reveals that it is much closer to 1:2 or perhaps even 1:1! I find that very interesting and worthy of examination from an historical point of view.

Why this disparity betwen original claims and what can be verified? If you allow, I'll give a few examples of such faulty US information regarding their losses.

For one thing there was the usual overclaiming on the US side, but even more improtantly it appears that many Sabre losses were somehow attributed to "ground fire" or other non-combat causes, even if it can be proven that the Sabre was lost in aerial combat. One prime example is F-86A Sabre BuNo 49-1319, which has this entry in the Korwald loss report:

Date of Loss: 511006
Tail Number: 49-1319
Aircraft Type: F-86A
Wing or Group: 4th Ftr-Int Gp
Circumstances of Loss: Hit by gnd fire 15 mi SW of Sinanju, crashed into the sea, bail out into Sinanju River

However, this particular Sabre was shot down by the top Korean ace, Yevgeny G. Pepelyayev! Also this Sabre did not crash into the sea but landed on some mud flats and was subsequently captured by the Soviets and taken to Russia for closer examination. A photo of the aircraft and more information about the combat itself may be seen here: http://www.acepilots.com/korea/yevgeny.html

I find it odd that a pilot reports being shot down by ground fire when in fact he was in an aerial combat in such a way that it cannot have been mistaken for "ground fire"! This is not the only example of this, another occured on the same day and combat as you can see on that webpage. F-86A BuNo 49-1267 was also shot down, not lost due to "engine failure".

What is the relevance to Il-2? Well, I think it clear that the alledged superiority of the Sabre over the MiG-15 is more or less a myth when flown by pilots of equal skills. The disparity of the two aircraft is relatively slight, though, and if the FMs are done right we will indeed have two aircraft where you really need to know the strength and weaknesses of yours and your opponent's aircraft in order to succeed!

Another thing I look forward to is blasting B-29s out of the sky with that armament!

BadPilot

"History is always written by the victors", although that might not be accurate in this case hehe.

The one thing that i think we all can agree on, is that the U.S pilots had an advantage, since many pilots fought in ww2, and those who didn't got trained by people who did fly in ww2.