[benitomuso]

Dear All,

wouldn't be interesting to have a MOD that could show in the speedbar of the IL-2 the calculated BombSight angle to avoid us of having to enter the key sequences in the BombSightTable or any other external application not practical at all?

A way of working could be these:

-Enable / Disable through a Hotkey or when you are in Bombsight view (not while flying the plane).
-Show only the angle based in the speed and the altitude (that are parameters know for the speedbar), you have to enter the angle manually for the BombSight view.

It would be a great improvement. Is any MODder interested on doing that?

Thanks,

Pablo

[KC Jones]

An interesting idea benitomuso but one I'm afraid would be too complicated to build.

Besides, as a bombardier, it would seem only useful for manual bomb drops in bombing competitions, where just a single bomb is dropped on a bulls-eye painted on the ground.

Other than that, the Norden on auto-drop (not really auto as you have to adjust your crosshairs precisely) and the PE-2 which gives you somewhat of a challenge, I prefer to follow history and how they did it.

But keep on thinking of ways to improve the sim. I'm still working on "Adjust Sight Controls to Left/Right" with the wind mod.

Just my 2 cents worth.

KC

[European Snake]

With the Nordon Sight(contrary to popular belief)the bomb sight angle is not an issue. Thats what bombsight automation is for.

[F4U-1_Corsair]

the norden sight used elevation to find the target and begin automation, and is the only user of elevation... so I don't see your point.

That aside, I've been thinking of making a slide rule to find TAS from IAS, as was done in real life

[KC Jones]

the norden sight used elevation to find the target and begin automation, and is the only user of elevation... so I don't see your point.

That aside, I've been thinking of making a slide rule to find TAS from IAS, as was done in real life

edit: tater, you posted the same time as me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E6B

You could use the dual needle airspeed indicator that is in the bombardier's compartment for the Norden.

The following is just a test shot of the TAS speedbar option of the BombBayDoors mod along with the ASI in the bombardier's compartment (I was going very slow)



Or you could just buy an E6B that already has a lot of conversion features on it including IAS-TAS (a must-have for serious pilots).



I was lucky enough to find this old WWII RAF one at a militaria show.

[Fusek]

Isn't trying to find out your bombsight angle, under attack and on bombrun, the most exiting part of a bomber run?

[KC Jones]

Isn't trying to find out your bombsight angle, under attack and on bombrun, the most exiting part of a bomber run?

Sounds like it.

But not historical nor real.

I cannot find any reference to using a bombsight table to determine bombsight angle in any history books.

Do you know of any ?

NORDEN M-9 BOMBSIGHT

The Norden bombsight was crucial to the success of the U.S. Army Air Forces' daylight bombing campaign during World War II. Initially developed by Carl Norden
for the U.S. Navy, the Army Air Corps acquired its first Norden bombsight in 1932.
Hghly classified, it gave American forces bombing accuracy unmatched by any other nation at the time. Initially, production of the Norden bombsight lagged, forcing the rapidly expanding Army Air Forces to use the less accurate Sperry S-1 bombsight. By 1943, however, enough Norden bombsights had become available, and production of the S-1 ended.

The Norden bombsight functioned as a part of a whole system. As the bomber approached its target, the bombardier entered data about wind direction, airspeed
and altitude into the bombsight's analog computer, which calculated wind drift and provided the correct aim point. An internal gyroscope provided the stability
necessary for using the telescopic sight at high altitudes. When connected to the Sperry C-1 Autopilot, the Norden bombsight provided unprecedented accuracy.

Although newspapers at the time claimed it was so accurate that it could "drop a bomb into a pickle barrel," the Norden bombsight seems archaic by the standards of today's U.S. Air Force. On the famous bombing raid against the ball-bearing factories at Schweinfurt in October 1943, the 8th Air Force sent more than 250 B-17 bombers to destroy the target. The bombardiers used Norden bombsights, but only one of every 10 of their bombs landed within 500 feet of their target. As a result, despite paying the high price of 60 bombers and 600 aircraft, the raid failed to completely destroy the target, and additional bombing raids were needed. By contrast, modern precision guided munitions are accurate to within a few feet, making a single airplane more effective than the hundreds of bombers of WWII.

Referemce: http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsh ... sp?id=8056

Notice no mention of entering a bombsight angle.


But thanks goes to Pablo for starting this interesting topic.

[TH0R]

When one understands level bombing and what is required to get an accurate angle, you will see that such a mod simply isn't possible.

There are few factors that come into play when setting up the bombsight: IAS/TAS, own altitude & most important - target altitude, or as we bomber pilots like to call it 'target elevation'.


TAS/IAS + plane altitude can easily be added into the speed bar, but target elevation can not be added unless you mod the option to manually input the elevation data. But in doing so this game would then be transformed into something completely different and everyone would be able to level bomb. Things like bombing runs would not be necessary anymore and I would personally stop playing the game if such a thing happens.

I cannot find any reference to using a bombsight table to determine bombsight angle in any history books.

Do you know of any ?

There is a very simple reason for this. Because they used Norden bombsight the way it is supposed to be used. The stuff KC Jones posted shows you their version of the Bombing Table.

[KC Jones]

When one understands level bombing and what is required to get an accurate angle, you will see that such a mod simply isn't possible.

There are few factors that come into play when setting up the bombsight: IAS/TAS, own altitude & most important - target altitude, or as we bomber pilots like to call it 'target elevation'.


TAS/IAS + plane altitude can easily be added into the speed bar, but target elevation can not be added unless you mod the option to manually input the elevation data. But in doing so this game would then be transformed into something completely different and everyone would be able to level bomb. Things like bombing runs would not be necessary anymore and I would personally stop playing the game if such a thing happens.

I cannot find any reference to using a bombsight table to determine bombsight angle in any history books.

Do you know of any ?

There is a very simple reason for this. Because they used Norden bombsight the way it is supposed to be used. The stuff KC Jones posted shows you their version of the Bombing Table.

Thor,

I know you are the author of the level bombing manual; I have read it. It emphasizes "manual drops", ergo the need for determining bombsight angle.

That's just not historical for the Norden.

But if you prefer to fly that way, then who am I to tell you different.

Also, please do not bend my words to agree with your new-age terminology of "bombsight table". I prefer historical WWII "stuff" :mrgreen:

Thanks

I too have been and am an avid bombardier since the days of Combat Flight Simulator w/TG2

ps - There is already a speedbar mod that adds TAS to the speedbar readouts. It comes with the BombBayDoors mod. Now if IL-2 could support a radio altimeter then that look-down receiver could find target elevation.

[Fusek]

ps - There is already a speedbar mod that adds TAS to the speedbar readouts. It comes with the BombBayDoors mod. Now if IL-2 could support a radio altimeter then that look-down receiver could find target elevation.

The Bf110 has one gauge that shows true alt over ground, works up to 750 meter.

[TH0R]

Thor,

I know you are the author of the level bombing manual; I have read it. It emphasizes "manual drops", ergo the need for determining bombsight angle.

That's just not historical for the Norden.

But if you prefer to fly that way, then who am I to tell you different.

Also, please do not bend my words to agree with your new-age terminology of "bombsight table". I prefer historical WWII "stuff" :mrgreen:

Thanks

I too have been and am an avid bombardier since the days of Combat Flight Simulator w/TG2

ps - There is already a speedbar mod that adds TAS to the speedbar readouts. It comes with the BombBayDoors mod. Now if IL-2 could support a radio altimeter then that look-down receiver could find target elevation.

Apologies if I made it sound that way mate.

I too, always try to use historical tactics and methods. But, when it comes to online level bombing with a group of bombers flying in tight formation - manual release is a must (for reasons I explained in the manual).

As for the matter of preset angles, or what we have available with BT2, I am inclined to believe that they had something like that - like a chart with angles for different speeds at different altitudes. Only, I don't think such a thing could have been very accurate.


@ Fusek, nice - I didn't know about that.

[{HVY-E}Jinxx]

I saw earlier today that someone actually did this mod, but now I can't seem to find it.
Anyone know what thread it was in?

[{HVY-E}Jinxx]

bump