21.10.2009, 18:07
Well, okay... It just seems kinda of pointless to spend the time and extreme effort building a plane nobody wants. Fortunately, it doesn't look that way.
Poll: Would you like to have the improved P-51K-10NT in IL2? - You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes
67
67.00%
No
33
33.00%
* You voted for this item.
Show Results
P-51K-10NT
21.10.2009, 18:13
I say go ahead with it mate. If you want to make it, i'm sure you'll get plenty (such as myself) who would download it and enjoy it. Is it slightly inferior to the D models? yes. Does that change the fact that lots of K models were produced and served, especially with the RAF? no. Remember not all of us here are concerned with only flying the fastest planes to make kills easier. Some of us want to 'fly' historical aircraft for the sake of 'flying' historical aircraft, so this unequivocally gets a Yes for from me, and the majority so far it seems. At the risk of ruffling feathers, i'd say a more receptive site to such a mod would be SAS, once they get back on their feet at the end of this week. it's a primarily offline community who are more open to mods and such. Not saying that as a criticism of AAA, I do understand the higher standards necessary for the online realm in the interest of fairness. Just for those of us who aren't onliners, it is a little nicer, and they do have some pretty high quality work. Just a suggestion is all 
.
cheers
.cheers
21.10.2009, 18:20
It would be the late P-51K-10NT which is slightly superior to the D-25NA
21.10.2009, 18:21
I would never turn donw a P-51K
But.. as some noted, the only difference in the K and the D was the prop, not sure how much that impacted the performance.
If I had a choice, I would say make a P-51H!
In that the new P-51Ds in UI1.2 are a god send wrt the D line!
In that the old P-51Ds were very under modled wrt to top speed, some where between 11 to 25mph too slow!
The new improved and more accurate 51Ds in the UI1.2 fix that long standing error! Not to mention the new .50s!
But.. as some noted, the only difference in the K and the D was the prop, not sure how much that impacted the performance.
If I had a choice, I would say make a P-51H!
In that the new P-51Ds in UI1.2 are a god send wrt the D line!
In that the old P-51Ds were very under modled wrt to top speed, some where between 11 to 25mph too slow!
The new improved and more accurate 51Ds in the UI1.2 fix that long standing error! Not to mention the new .50s!
21.10.2009, 18:23
The P-51H will be in the Mustang collection. This and the F-6D-20NT will be addons to the Mustang Collection, assuming people want the F-6D too... At this point, anyone who can help me figure out how to make the plane based on Wolf's D-25NT, it would be great.
21.10.2009, 20:31
Well I hate to say, but, if I were you, I'd go ahead and do it anyway. After all, there are only eight (8) Mustangs total in the game now with the three additions and EIGHTEEN!!! (18) in the MODS folder ALONE of the BF-109. So I guess if we can have every incarnation of the 109, then I don't think folks need to be cajoling you about wanting the K or L or whatever other mustang was ever built, myself included.
21.10.2009, 22:13
This is no news to you. They just added some 51s and 38s, so there are other planes that take precedent with me.
I was hoping to get a P-47n, P-47m or a '45 variant of the D.
I've started the model, and it would be easy to use the same model for all three aircraft with slight variations in the wings.
It would take someone with better knowledge of java to build the rest of the plane into the game.
thank you in advance.
The other planes still missing are the Lancer. I seem to be on this Republic kick, but hey...they made good planes.
The Lancer (P-43) made its mark in China against the Japanese. Not the best aircraft of its era, however it had a supercharger and was a significantly better performer at higher altitudes than the Curtiss P-40.
P-43A-1is the one i had in mind.
The Ki-44 is still missing. This bird was nothing like the ki-43. It was the first Japanese bird designed for climb and speed, rather than maneuverability.
This was the real fortress killer, as it was designed to intercept bombers. The Ki-44IIc would be ideal because it had a pair of light machine guns and a pair of 37mm.
It would also fill the gap in Japanese fighters between using the ki-43, A6m, and later ki-61, ki-84 and ki-100. This bird was a mid war interceptor.
However,
If i sit back and think about it, the only other Mustang i might like to see before the creation of the K is the H.
If you are including that as part of your series of planes then great. I just don't see much use for the K, so its not one I'd be jumping at.
Bill
I was hoping to get a P-47n, P-47m or a '45 variant of the D.
I've started the model, and it would be easy to use the same model for all three aircraft with slight variations in the wings.
It would take someone with better knowledge of java to build the rest of the plane into the game.
thank you in advance.
The other planes still missing are the Lancer. I seem to be on this Republic kick, but hey...they made good planes.
The Lancer (P-43) made its mark in China against the Japanese. Not the best aircraft of its era, however it had a supercharger and was a significantly better performer at higher altitudes than the Curtiss P-40.
P-43A-1is the one i had in mind.
The Ki-44 is still missing. This bird was nothing like the ki-43. It was the first Japanese bird designed for climb and speed, rather than maneuverability.
This was the real fortress killer, as it was designed to intercept bombers. The Ki-44IIc would be ideal because it had a pair of light machine guns and a pair of 37mm.
It would also fill the gap in Japanese fighters between using the ki-43, A6m, and later ki-61, ki-84 and ki-100. This bird was a mid war interceptor.
However,
If i sit back and think about it, the only other Mustang i might like to see before the creation of the K is the H.
If you are including that as part of your series of planes then great. I just don't see much use for the K, so its not one I'd be jumping at.
Bill
22.10.2009, 11:28
Already knowing of your penchant for the Mustang Deac I was wondering, have you had the time yet to actually fly the ones we got in the 1.2 yet or are you just spending all your free time lobbying for the ones we haven't got? With all your historical knowledge about the subject why not make some missions based on real events or highlights of the Mustang legacy. I'm sure many would love to fly them and enjoy the fruits we have already got.
22.10.2009, 16:41
Yeah... I already have some great ideas for campaigns to make... Here's some of them:
1944 - P-51A-1NA - Burma (1st ACG)
1944 - P-51B-15NA - D-Day
1944 - P-51B-15NA - Shuttle to Russia
1944/45 - P-51B/D - Berlin
1944/5 - ETF-51D-5NA - Japan
1944/45 P-51D/K - Japan
1946 - P-51H-5NA - Invasion of Japan
1948 - F-51H-5NA - Russia (Berlin Crisis)
1948 - P-51D/K - Israel
1950-53 - F-51D-30NA - Korea
I know that not all of these models have been made, but this is just a sampling of what I intend to do...
1944 - P-51A-1NA - Burma (1st ACG)
1944 - P-51B-15NA - D-Day
1944 - P-51B-15NA - Shuttle to Russia
1944/45 - P-51B/D - Berlin
1944/5 - ETF-51D-5NA - Japan
1944/45 P-51D/K - Japan
1946 - P-51H-5NA - Invasion of Japan
1948 - F-51H-5NA - Russia (Berlin Crisis)
1948 - P-51D/K - Israel
1950-53 - F-51D-30NA - Korea
I know that not all of these models have been made, but this is just a sampling of what I intend to do...
22.10.2009, 16:49
OK, I was going to make the same point at the P-51 Mod Collection thread, here it goes...
Oh, before that, I haven't voted - 'yes' or 'no' doesn't matter, as I'm not a modder; if anyone wants to tackle this, I'm not going to stop him.
Is there a rational reason to add another P-51 variant to Il-2? Before I get bashed, hear me out - the P-51K was a variation of the D-model with a different propeller and canopy, built at another factory, right? Early K-s had prop troubles and were often switched to the Hamilton Standart props, so besides a very small visual change to the canopy, they'll look and behave exactly like the D-model P-51s.
The K-variant you ask for is, as I understand, is a version with a fine working Aeroproducts prop, that was used in the PTO. But... besides a (probably) very small increase in flight performance, that would be unnoticable in Il-2s FM, and a very insignificant visual change (that again would be barely visible) is there a need add it?
Yes, I'm no P-51 expert, I may be wrong. But if we don't get/need a K- that had all those vibration problems due to the prop (resulting in a trickier and interesting FM) what's the point of a K- that's like the D-? So there's just another P-51 listed and more loading time added?
Sorry, but what you're asking for, in my humble opinion, is just pointless. I guess you're a fan of the P-51 so I can understand you, but if someone's going to work on it he better work on the A-s and F-51s from Korea, rather than just a renamed D- wth different canopy.
Hope I've not been rude...
Oh, before that, I haven't voted - 'yes' or 'no' doesn't matter, as I'm not a modder; if anyone wants to tackle this, I'm not going to stop him.
Is there a rational reason to add another P-51 variant to Il-2? Before I get bashed, hear me out - the P-51K was a variation of the D-model with a different propeller and canopy, built at another factory, right? Early K-s had prop troubles and were often switched to the Hamilton Standart props, so besides a very small visual change to the canopy, they'll look and behave exactly like the D-model P-51s.
The K-variant you ask for is, as I understand, is a version with a fine working Aeroproducts prop, that was used in the PTO. But... besides a (probably) very small increase in flight performance, that would be unnoticable in Il-2s FM, and a very insignificant visual change (that again would be barely visible) is there a need add it?
Yes, I'm no P-51 expert, I may be wrong. But if we don't get/need a K- that had all those vibration problems due to the prop (resulting in a trickier and interesting FM) what's the point of a K- that's like the D-? So there's just another P-51 listed and more loading time added?
Sorry, but what you're asking for, in my humble opinion, is just pointless. I guess you're a fan of the P-51 so I can understand you, but if someone's going to work on it he better work on the A-s and F-51s from Korea, rather than just a renamed D- wth different canopy.
Hope I've not been rude...
22.10.2009, 16:56
No, you haven't been rude... It's like the difference between the P-51D-30NA and P-51D-25NA. It's not that significant, but I'm going to make both the P-51K-10NT and F-6D-20NT for a more historical perspective. It was made, used, slightly better than it's respective D, similar, but unique and I want to recreate that. Trust me, I'm not going to do anything crazy like try to make a P-51C just because there was one. If the late K was exactly the same as the D, then I wouldn't bother, but the point is it's not.
22.10.2009, 18:01
Deac won't share the documentation that the later Ks (after prop problems were fixed) had improved performance over concurrent Ds (I don't really care if they outperformed older, worn-out Ds, as new planes generally outperform older ones). Since the word "improved" is in the poll, this info would seem to be relevant to the discussion. Does anyone else have documentation of this improved performance in quantified form (not anecdotes)? I've gone through my pile of sources and can't find anything but anecdotes of inferior performance and laggy propeller response (a different issue from vibration, I would assume), but I don't have the greatest collection of P-51 materials.
22.10.2009, 20:32
Deac Wrote:It was made, used, slightly better than it's respective D, similar, but unique and I want to recreate that.Better how?
Or should I ask what is your definiton of better? Because one mans better is another mans worse.
After which I would like to know what your 'better' statement is based on, for example, if you say the K was faster than the D, what real world data is there to support that statement? And please dont say wikipidea!
As for adding a K that is nothing more than a D, I would not be agintst it the basic reason that we seem to have just about ever version of 109 ever made and some that were never made! So a 51K would be more than valid to include in that since.
My only point is that if your going to go threw the effort of making some 3D art.. Why note make it for one that is truly differnt. Like the P51H?
22.10.2009, 21:53
I don't really get your fixation on the K. I'm not a self proclaimed expert, but as others point out the differences are so minimal as to be insignificant. I'd wager in a large production run like the Mustang you could find A/C from the same serial block with slightly better or worse performance.
As we already have the F-51D for Korean ops, why not make one with a fixed tail wheel? Most were locked into the down position in the 50s. That would be a valid reason to model your version.
As we already have the F-51D for Korean ops, why not make one with a fixed tail wheel? Most were locked into the down position in the 50s. That would be a valid reason to model your version.
22.10.2009, 23:30
In short, the P-51H is already being worked on, better means superior, and Rjel, come off it. You know we don't agree, so shut it. For all of you asking for performance improvement proof. I read somewhere, from a legitimate source, not Wiki, that the late Mustang IVa, the Brit re-named P-51K, in this case, Block 10, had a top speed of around 442-445mph at altitude as compared to the D's 437-440mph at altitude, so hah... I just can't find the link right now, so sorry...
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