[everclear]

Hi all.
I was just wondering why no one ever includes the source for their mods/tools. I don't think anyone's planning to make any $$$ from this, so it seems a bit odd that there's never any source code, or even basic file structure info offered (as in .SFS). I may not be looking hard enough - in that case, apologies...
Since this forum is mod-oriented, it seems like a waste of time - so many people (like me) could be adding to the sim & making improvements on existing tools / mods, instead of re-inventing the wheel & learning stuff through trial & error.
HSFX v4 is out, which means that people have no problems in dealing with .SFS files, so ... what keeps them from sharin'? I know it can't be greed or EULA.
I just think it would be a win-win deal if people could build on existing info / code, *and* expand the modding possibilities, instead of blunderin' around on hex editors & scrounging for tidbits of info on the net. Just a thought.
-d

[tityus]

(...) it seems a bit odd that there's never any source code, or even basic file structure info offered (...) people have no problems in dealing with .SFS files, so ... what keeps them from sharin'? I know it can't be greed or EULA. it would be a win-win deal if people could build on existing info / code, *and* expand the modding possibilities, instead of blunderin' around on hex editors & scrounging for tidbits of info on the net.

Everclear,

Searching the forum, you will see that the main reason behind that information compartmentalization is to protect the game from those that would code for gaining an unfair advantage over other pilots. Once the knowledge is out, there is no way one can prevent cheaters to benefit from it... and The game would suffer...

So, those who have it, try to select those who they will share the knowledge.

Worst of all, although I, myself, would like to produce mods for the community and have big latent potential for doing so, I concur that the hush-hush policy does more good than harm.

[Decon]

Hmmm.......always wondered about this? So, do they submit "provable resume's and go before a "good-guy" panel of inquirery and then get Knighted with "The Tools".

How are we assured that some "Tom-foolery" isn't at play behind the backs of we, the unsuspecting?

Good question everclear.

In God We Trust, all others........pay cash!
D

[dunkelgrun]

HSFX v4 is out, which means that people have no problems in dealing with .SFS files, so ... what keeps them from sharin'? I know it can't be greed or EULA.

The chap that did the bulk of the work for HSFX v4 was given the SFS compiler on the strict understanding that it wouldn't be passed on. Even the owner's name is kept quiet in order (I suspect) to prevent the poor devil from being swamped with 'I wan't this', 'Can you make me this?', 'This is porked' mails that would ensue.
The number of folk who have actually thanked the HSFX team (and by association, all of the other mod creators) is far fewer than those who have whined about or demanded more in it.

Keeping the integrity of the sim intact must be the number one priority though. It's a shame for people like tater who don't go online, but I'm happy in the knowledge that HSFX and the other mod packs won't allow any tinkering with Oleg's FMs, and are attempting to have everything they include tied to the historical facts.

:cheers:

[anatolie79]

Not so tools SFS, as SFS can be easily connected or switched-off as library, and it (besides high speed of work) their main advantage, IMHO. The another matter that contents SFS were is documentary and is strict on subjects, for example cockpits were not combined with maps, and so on, for the confident manipulation a content.

[everclear]

I guess i disagree with some of the premises. For one, i've never been a big believer in "security through obfuscation". If the info is out there (and it is - reading the russian forums, especially starting from a couple of years ago, when QTim's entire threads were trashed by the admins, but not before being archived by others), the "bad guys" will undoubtedly find it. And i'm quite sure they have, have built on it, and will continue to do so. Though i doubt that *those* particular "bad guys" actually went on to cheat in on-line games - they have either simply shared their exploits with other hacker-y friends (not such a bad thing), or went on to write "cheat mods" - most certainly without sharing source code, so that IL-2 equivalents of script kiddies could patch their IL-2 installs (*the* bad thing).
Sorry about the rambling run-ons - the coffee hasn't kicked in yet. Bear with me.
It's also a mystery to me how keeping *some* of the file structures obscure improves on-line security (help me here - scrambling TARGA files? Hiding .mat files? burying default skins?).
What i'm trying to say, in too many words, is that it might make everyone's lives easier if info was *readily* available, rather than existing all over the net in bits & pieces. That way, people who write mods could both write better mods, *and* have time left over to improve on-line security.
I'm not trying to start a debate which would be pointless & unwinnable by either side. Simply airing some thoughts. All in all, I think IL-2's a gem - it's the only 'puter game I've played more than a couple of times since first DooM came out, and the whole ma & pa company i used to work for stuck around after work & played on the company's LAN. I just have this infantile need to tweak stuff - i enjoy it even more than actually flying the sim.
-d

[RedChico]

For one, i've never been a big believer in "security through obfuscation".

I can tell you that it works perfectly.
Example: Grand Prix Legends, where only some select have access to "Da" modding tools there, and those select ones are quite thrustworthy, unlike here in the IL2 community.
"We" have 3 big mods F1 seasons 1965, 1966 and 1969 and they top notch quality.

The problem is that the lack of NDA, mistakes made and lack of honour are why we have all these Mod packs of Mods made by third party that get into yet another modpack by yet another guy that don't work together and wich quality is daughtfull.~
In other words people are the weakest link

The damage is already done, more openness? That will increase the chaos we already have.


In sum this community lacks Organization.

But hey it's just my opionion, right? Who the hell am i?

[everclear]

Example: Grand Prix Legends, where only some select have access to "Da" modding tools there, and those select ones are quite thrustworthy, unlike here in the IL2 community.
"We" have 3 big mods F1 seasons 1965, 1966 and 1969 and they top notch quality.

Err. Yeah. I'll take your word for it. I'm glad you're happy with the mods "those select ones" are providing you with. Some folks are very happy playing with pre-fab toys. And some like modding.

In sum this community lacks Organization.

I wouldn't be able to agree with you more if we were actually fighting a war. But ... we're just having fun with a sim. Not sure it would be much fun with any more "Organization", with a capital "O", to boot.

But hey it's just my opionion, right? Who the hell am i?

Not really sure, nor really care.
-d

[Guest]

I've posted in another thread but there is only one person in the modding community who knows SFS structure and how to compile SFS archives, but he is not at liberty to share it. Whether it be for legal or contractual or even moral reasons, I don't know BUT outside of 1C:Maddox (that is, if he is from outside of 1C:Maddox or associated groups), he will be the one and only person who knows.

It would be nice to have BUT for now that's how it is

[everclear]

Fair enough. As long as i know that, figuring out SFS becomes a fun riddle. Thanks for a direct, non-moralizing answer.
-d

[Radoye]

There's already an SFS extractor utility floating around the net, and that's what people use to create mods in the unpacked format (FILES and MODS folder). The SFS repacking as used in HSFX and Ultrapack mods is like Anto said, known just to one guy who can't share that knowledge.

However, the SFS extractor will only give you access to some aspects like 3D models and such, but not to the FM/DM which are contained elsewhere in the il-2 1946.

But if you look into an older version of the game pre-1946 (like Il-2FB or Pacific Fighters or the merged FBPF) using the SFS extractor, you will be able to see how the FM files look like and to play around with them. But you still won't be able to stick that into Il-2 1946 without help from someone in the know.