[Freddy]

But bad news if it means he flew a few more one on one df missions with his buds and determined they, in their MiGs, are still shooting him down too often in his F86 and thus he increased the power of the F86 some more..

Which is the problem with any/all FMs that are based on personal preferences instead of real world data.

Don t worry , no increased power for the F-86 ...
You are a flight Engineer perhaps ??? lol

Yes the update will have few delay ....

Best regards to all

[Alex T.]

I'm sorry to bother guys, but it doesn't seem to work for me :-(
I followed the instructions step by step, but I have the much dreaded 60% CTD :-(
Now that we all know the installation guidelines, why don't everybody use a unified installation exe system? That would make all so much easier!

Alex

[ACE-OF-ACES]

... Freddy flew a Mig 15 yesterday night .... he ain't that dumb as to always fly the same AC ....

Never said he was dumb.. the point I was making, that you missed, is a FM based off of duels with your buddies is not the way to do it.

In that that his method says more about the difference in pilot skill and luck than how accurate the FM is.

If you knew how fussy he is about historical detail you'd be afraid ... :lol:

Doubt it in that I have yet to meet anyone as fussy as me when it comes to accuracy of a FM

What does bother me though is what he said with regards to real world data, followed by the following statement, i.e.

[quote="Freddy"]The only solution according to me is optimization under load, that is

[ACE-OF-ACES]

But bad news if it means he flew a few more one on one df missions with his buds and determined they, in their MiGs, are still shooting him down too often in his F86 and thus he increased the power of the F86 some more..

Which is the problem with any/all FMs that are based on personal preferences instead of real world data.

Don t worry , no increased power for the F-86 ...
You are a flight Engineer perhaps ??? lol

Perhaps

With that said, how do you validate your FM changes?

[Freddy]

Assuming I am starting with a clean version of 4.08m or 4.09m. Can you provide me a link to all the mods I will need to install your mod.

All is said !
You seem to be a pretty boy , but you come here to fight with me about FM , and you have not tried the mod ???? hock:

Sorry , find another guy , I don t have time to loose ....
And before to talk about something , try it !
It seems too you don t know the game and its defaults ... :wink:

Have a good night ...

[Fly!]

On a good note:

Freddy your cockpits are beautiful & the best in the game.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Assuming I am starting with a clean version of 4.08m or 4.09m. Can you provide me a link to all the mods I will need to install your mod.

All is said !
You seem to be a pretty boy , but you come here to fight with me about FM , and you have not tried the mod ???? hock:

Sorry , find another guy , I don t have time to loose ....
And before to talk about something , try it !
It seems too you don t know the game and its defaults ... :wink:

Have a good night ...

Pretty boy?
Fight with you?
WTF?

I simply repeated what you said at your COREA web site and ask you how you validated your FMs.

So, you only have yourself to be upset with there.

As for trying it, I like you don't have a lot of time on my hands. Also note that on the previous page I ask you were I can get the latest download.

But know that I have spoken with and flown with several guys who have flown your mod and they all say pretty much the same thing.

Your version of the F86 and MiG are over modled is speed and climb and that the stall speeds were all messed up.

That in combination with your initial post about real world data, or in your case the lack there of, is what my posts are based on.

So if me asking you questions about what you based your FM on and how you validated it upsets you so, well, that you should consider sticking to 3D art work and leave the FM work to someone else.

Just a thought

Or..

Is this thin skinned over reaction of yours just an act and your way of further avoiding the subject of what your FMs are based on?

I tend to think it is the later, in that your reply was way over the top IMHO!

In that asking a question of someone and/or repeating what someone said typically does not get such a reaction, unless they are trying to hide something.

[European Snake]

Ace, can you drop it? ITS STILL A BETA!!! And I'm sure he doesn't have access to a real veteran F-86 pilot.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Ace, can you drop it? ITS STILL A BETA!!!

Well beta or no beta asking what data the FMs is based on and how they were verified/validated is not something that should have to be dropped IMHO.

That and it has been said COREA will allways be WIP in that it the plane is to constantly update it, thus by your reasoning I would never be able to ask the question

And I'm sure he doesn't have access to a real veteran F-86 pilot.

As if anyone else does?

Do you know what I mean by real world data?

It does not mean a time machine where we kidnap a F86 or MiG pilot.

See the following link for an example
viewtopic.php?t=21363&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

[European Snake]

And I'm sure he doesn't have access to a real veteran F-86 pilot.

As if anyone else does?

I just remembered that I actually do, lol. The guy who holds the record for most Air Force Crosses awarded lives about 30 minutes away... I have a book autographed by him... Colonel James H Kasler...

And there are a few F-86s that are still airworthy... Saw one at Oshkosh...

[Freddy]

But know that I have spoken with and flown with several guys who have flown your mod and they all say pretty much the same thing.

Your version of the F86 and MiG are over modled is speed and climb and that the stall speeds were all messed up

Oh ! Really ???
Over modeled in speed ? :lol:
If you believe all what you hear , you are in a bad situation ...
As I said before , always make your own try about something before to talk

For exemple on one of my books , for the F-86A : maximum speed 679 mph at sea level ... Another : 1107 km/h (688 mph) at sea level ...
Try my F-86A and look if it s " overmodeled " ...

My stall speed is at 180/200 km/h , it s correct ... I ve spend a lot of time to make the F-86 as an eavy plane , that it was in reality , and the 50' s engines are not very nervous , so you ll loose altitude if you go to low speeds , it s correct too ... Low speeds are dangerous with these 50 s jets , I don t want to have a butterfly in my simulator ...Consequently , landings are a little more hard , you have to manage a correct curve landing
A friend of mine , pilot , have tested this with the flight manual and it s ok ...
Trying another FM , I ve found the F-86 too light ... It loose a wing at 1120 km/h and it s ridiculous ... First , a F-86A can t go to 1120 KM/H in horizontal flight cause the maximum speed is under this value ( it s really overmodeled ...) Second , if it go over this speed ,in a dive for example , it can t have any problem , cause it s supersonic .....etc ...etc ...


One plane in my mod is really a little surmodeled in speed for this moment , it s the F-51 , I know that and I ll update it soon ...

Don t forget , in this game , over 5000 /6000 m , all the values are wrong cause the atmospheric simulation is wrong , so be carreful with your curves

that you should consider sticking to 3D art work and leave the FM work to someone else.

Just a thought

Yes for sure .... And perhaps this " someone else " is you or one of your friends ? :lol:
For the " 3D art work " it s very clear that you don t know nothing about the work on this simulator ( exept perhaps il2 compare ... ) cause you don t see a large part of the work is not "3d art work" but programing java class ...

It s the last answer from me to you : If you want to proove my planes are overmodeled , do the test yourself !

And most important : Come later with a plane modded by yourself or your friends , and show us how better it is...

If it s better , I will be very happy to use it !

Last thing : a plane , it s not only maximum speed and climb rate ... Don t forget to read the real flight manual , and see what happen in game ... :wink:

Over and out for me ...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

And I'm sure he doesn't have access to a real veteran F-86 pilot.

As if anyone else does?

I just remembered that I actually do, lol. The guy who holds the record for most Air Force Crosses awarded lives about 30 minutes away... I have a book autographed by him... Colonel James H Kasler...

And there are a few F-86s that are still airworthy... Saw one at Oshkosh...

So, does this mean you dont know what I mean by real world data?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

As I said before , always make your own try about something before to talk

Funny you should say that..

In that I did just that!

I generated the IL2C files and plotted the in game ROC results along side the real world data results

And guess what

Your F-86A ROC is off by 35% (percent error)



But, this test is all I had time for tonight..

But rest assured I will get to the rest of the tests soon.

Also, keep in mind that IL2C data is not 100% accurate, thus a formal flight test is in order.

Which I will do, and save the track file of said flight.

But I like to start with the IL2C data to get a ball park idea of how close the FM is.

And based on this ROC data

I would have to say your FM is pretty far off the mark wrt ROC!

And that it appears that I was justified in 'believing all what I heard' with regards to the ROC..

And thus NOT in a 'bad situation'

And please, don't be upset with me to the point that you have to resort to calling me names again..

In that I was simply doing what you told us all to do, i.e.

Use your brains, test in game, and only consider what you think is the most credible

And

[quote="Freddy"]You too can access films, documents, books, and can decide for yourself what is credible and what is not

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Happy thanksgiving everyone!

I am on my way out the door..

But before I go I wanted to upload a few more items..

In light of the resistance to feedback here..

My guess is the next thing that will be toss up on the wall is to try and imply that I must not have installed the mod correctly

So think of this as a preemptive strike!

Here is a link to the install steps I used
www.flightsimtesting.com/fst/il2/roc/4. ... _STEPS.txt

Here is a link to the classcheck doublin file
www.flightsimtesting.com/fst/il2/roc/4. ... oublon.txt

From that I generated the short list
www.flightsimtesting.com/fst/il2/roc/4. ... FLICTS.txt

Here is a link to a listing of all the files in my game directory
www.flightsimtesting.com/fst/il2/roc/4. ... ECTORY.txt

And here is a copy of the RWD from the F-86A Flight Manual
www.flightsimtesting.com/fst/il2/roc/4. ... 6A_ROC.jpg

On another note..

I think I have come across a bug?

Other than the FM bugs!

I read somewhere that having the canopy open at the start is intentional..

But..

The problem with that is the AI does not seem to realize it is open, and they fly with it open, at least they do until it rips off. Worse yet when you do a QMB the canopy starts out open, even though your in-flight! I imagine the same is true for the FMB missions. This is a really annoying problem, is there a way to turn the canopy-open-at-the-start 'option' off?

[Freddy]

I can see you passed here again with your curves ...

Ho ! You just want to talk about that ? ...



Let me to tell you , using that , it s just to give for the player some basic informations about the FM , but ... using only this to know a FM is totally ridiculous !
And if you want to put exactly your curve from game on a real curve , it s an Heresy !

The game is not like the real world , there is a lot of errors in the code , so if you want a good simulated plane this method is totally wrong !

Have you made your test with some original plane from the game ? For example the BF 109 ? As you know , Oleg is a real flight engineer , and his plane is not exactly like the real ... Why ??? Find the answer yourself !

You come here with an Username in capital letters as a guy who knows everything about FM , and it seems exept your curves from IL2 Compare , you don t understand nothing about how this game is programed ...
It seems to me ( maybe I m wrong ? ) IL2 Compare just take the FM files from the buttons , but the FM can be tweaked too in the java class , and I think a lot of my code is not read by il2 compare , I ve tweaked the climb rate and a lot of other things in the java class ...
In your post , your screen show a curve about ROC , and you show it saying my max speed is overmodeled , it s not the same max speed and ROC !

Perhaps you have the chance my english is not very good , so I can t explain exactly what I think about you and your fight against me ....

But one question : WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR THIS GAME ? ANY MOD SOMEWHERE ??? I would be very satisfied to see it !

First learn to say thanks when you take something , and learn to have more humility when you don t know something ... ( perhaps I m wrong but I suppose you don t know how to open the buttons and the fm , how to program a java class and how to do something in 3ds max ??? ) ... Just IL2 Compare ... it s a little short !

At last , and I hope it s the last time , go away or shut up your mouth , if you don t like my mod , don t use it , it s very easy ... But keep your curves with you , I know all that , and you re totaly wrong about that !