[Guest]

Okay, so I've done alot more research since I last posted on this subject and I have private messaged the creator of the Forgotten Countries mod without avail. Anyways, I thought I would propose a modified version of my original request.

I would like to propose having the Confederate Air Force for the Confederate States of America being added to IL2 on both the Red and the Blue sides.

So, everybody knows that the Confederate States of America was defeated in the American Civil War. Most people; however, think that it just went away. The Confederate States of America is still around today and is legally a country under occupation of the United States of America. In fact, here's their website:

http://www.confederatestatesofamerica.org/

Oh, and for those of you who are going to jump on the slavery and racism of the old Confederacy, please go to the website and read the Constitution. The slavery and racism has been denounced and is now fought against by the Confederacy which is basically about state rights over federal rights. I just say this in an attempt to keep this thread clean of politics.

Anyways, a ways back, there was a non-profit organization started called the Confederate Air Force. It later became the Commemorative Air Force and is still around today. That concept got me thinking though...

What if the Confederacy had survived the war with more success? What if they got an air force and joined the fight in WWII? They would have had their own factories for aircraft such as the North American plant in Dallas, Texas and the Consolidated plant in Fort Worth, Texas. They would have used the American aircraft that they were producing and would have probably had a similar roundel scheme as the United States as several other countries who have historically used American aircraft have.

Well, back before the real Confederate Air Force became the Commemorative Air Force, they had their own roundel scheme that was applied to American aircraft.

On the stardboard top wing, port bottom wing, and starboard fuselage, they had the standard "star and bar" roundel that was used by the USAAF between 1943 and 1947 as shown below.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...3-1947.png

On the port side fuselage, they had the special "flag and bar" roundel that looked like this:


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4254...4558_o.png

The placement was exactly the same as the traditional USAAF placement, just the port fuselage roundel being replaced with the "flag and bar" one. I would propose using this roundel scheme since this scheme actually had a historical basis.

Next, we should probably go over the flag for the Confederate States of America. Contrary to popular belief, what is often displayed as the Confederate Flag today, is actually a variation of the Confederate Naval Jack. The real Confederate Flag would be the Third National Flag, or the "Blood Stained Banner."


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...to.svg.png

That would have to be the flag for the Confederacy in the sim.

Now, let's go over the awards of the Confederacy. All of these are modern Confederate military decorations.


http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6335/...estars.jpg

The medal above is for the Military Order of the Stars and Bars. It is the lowest ranking award I'm listing here so it would be the lowest award in the sim.


http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9679/cr...ervice.jpg

This is the Cross of Military service which is an outgrowth of the Southern Cross of Honor, the highest military decoration of the Confederacy during the American Civil War. This particular version was awarded to veterans of WWII who were also direct blood-line relatives of Confederate veterans. Due to its lineage in the Southern Cross of Honor, it should only be the second highest award of the CAF in the sim due to the next award.


http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8177/...fhonor.jpg

Finally, we have the Confederate Medal of Honor. Yes, this is a real award that is posthumously awarded to Confederate heroes today. Since it is based on the Medal of Honor which is the highest award of the United States of America, the Confederate Medal of Honor should naturally be the highest award for the Confederacy in IL2.

Well, I think that's about it since the wings pin and blood chit of the Confederate Air Force aren't too important. If you have any questions about this, support it, or know how to add the CAF, please let me know. One last thing, I kept the images small to make this easier to view, but there are links for the originals under the photos.

[max_thehitman]

Confederate States of America ?

LOL :lol: Sorry mate, I just have to laugh a little at the thought of seeing a Hillbilly faced pilot behind a P-51 Pony, or
worse, some scary guys in KKK suits and masks! Gosh!
I wonder who would be their President ?
Joseph McCarthy or J.Edgar Hoover ?
I think a few years back someone did some skins for a similar idea as yours. I remember seeing some screenshots
back in the old UBI_IL-2 forum. They might still be around in someplace.

[Guest]

Prejudice at all? Just kidding, but seriously...

Anyways, well I've got someone in mind for a specific CAF skin I would like and I've already asked for it, but this person doesn't feel like skinning at the moment so I'll ask later. The point is though, that I'm hoping this brings about the Confederacy being added as a country with its air force, the Confederate Air Force.

[Fisneaky]

:roll: Coughs..

[Guest]

Then why can't I select the CAF for a country in the menu? By the way, that's the wrong flag too...

[boogabooga]

LOL, an occupied country. More power to them.

That would get rid of the SEC and a big chunk of the Big 12, and I would be beside myself :wink:

Not to get political, but I can think of more than a few politicians they can take with them as well...

[Pooch]

While I realize that this is a what if scenario, the fact that you think those factories in the South would have been around without financing from Northern banks, or without help from the Federal Government is a bit naive.
And there was a reason that Lincoln fought so hard to put the country back together. "United we stand and devided we fall." A seperated United States would have produced two terribly weakened countries, both open to Military and economic invasion. And without any industry whatsover, the South would probably have come out on the raw end of the deal. It's one of the major reasons the South lost the war.
While I don't mind the what if thing, sometimes...it has to have at least some believability for it to work for me.
I'm positive, that years after the South had won, there would have been so much economic strife, that both countries would have eventually signed an agreement, and pulled back together again.

[Guest]

Okay Pooch, I'd really like to know what part of let's not make this political don't you understand? I don't want to battle over whether or not this is historically probable. That would just mean I'd have to do a lot more writing to prove my points.

[Sakai07]

Deac, I have to say, that is one of the most entertaining web sites I have ever seen. Just to get this out of the way early, I am african-american and live as far north as possible, with the exception of Alaska, Maine!!! I personally think that New England would be better off if we split from the rest of the nation, I am all about it. They found a dirty bomb in Bangor recently, guess i'm not the only one. But I wouldn't go to that extreme, I want to live here after!

Anyways, I fully support the new confederacy. If anyone thinks that the south is all about slaves and ignorance, they obviously haven't been there. I did my basic training in Georgia, and lived there for a few months before that, North Carolina too, and loved it. I think an alternate history campaign with some brother vs. brother air to air would be great. What is the civil war never started until the southern dissidents saw the weakness of the federal gav. after Pearl??? just some ideas.

[boogabooga]

I just thought of something. Isn't asking for one Confederate States of America kind of missing the point? Perhaps you should ask for each of the individual constituent states to be in the list.

In the Confederate constitution, did each state have the power to declar war individually?

[George Formby]

S~
Have you guys seen the IFC movie CSA? It is based on a very "what if" kinda deal. It actually is quite interesting, because they actually throw in lttle facts that could have changed the course of the "war between the states" and brings the CSA all the way up to modern times, thru WW2 to the present. I bought it on amazon i think for like 5 dollars. Anyhow, I was blown away by who had his mits in the prodution...Spike Lee!!! As for racism, it will die when people let it, and I buried it along time ago.
Good hunting mates,
George

[Sakai07]

This topic has prompted me to re-install "Shattered Union". For those not familiar, it is a war game based around a theoretical breakup of the U.S. Interestingly enough, this is prompted by an unpopular president being elected by the supreme court after an electoral tie. He and the rest of the gov are nuked by terrorist (domestic?) forces and following this, America disintegrates. We have the classic confederation, a New England alliance, the Midwest, North West Pac, Texas Federation, and the California Commonwealth. Russia occupied Alaska to observe, and the EU occupies D.C. in an effort to stabilize the country. Very interesting game, currently I am playing the campaign as the South and have almost completely conquered the Texas Federation (need that oil while being attack from the north by the midwest folks, repulsing them with light losses to myself. The mass population of new england will provide me with issues down the road i'm sure. anyways, just wanted to let you all know about this game.

[caldrail]

Hmmm... Let me think on this....

The issue here is local pride. Nothing unusual there, as irish, scottish, and welsh markings are already waiting in the wings. However, if you want to replay another civil war, you already can with Forgotten Nations, because it allows you the US forces on both sides. Now that doesn't imply communist or facist policies, before anyone asks. All you need do is supply skins with appropriate symbols on them.

I did once play around with this concept, painting B24's and B17's in butternut or light grey uppers with sky blue undersides, and making big heraldic state identifications on the tails using their flags as a basis.

The realistic issue here though is indeed the paintwork. Presumably a new confederate rising is a sudden reaction to circumstance, thus the southern boys have a problem in that they need a real visible difference in colours to prevent friendly fire. The confederate flag, whilst a symbol invoking much patriotism in America, is a complex symbol and not well suited to easy painting in hurried circumstance.

I would leave off the stars (heresy!) and paint red squares with blue and white crosses on them, or even think of something different altogether, to ensure those northern flyers know you're coming. Lots of red paint might be an idea as the USAAF often feature areas of blue. What you don't want is a similar icon like the one you suggest.

Just a few thoughts. Put yourself in the place of the rebel commanders of the southern states and figure out what they would do to help tell each other apart.

[Alemart_el_Redentor]

Mmmhh, this confederate "country", is not the same that fought the US civil war in favour of slavery? :o

[akdavis]

Owl has possessed Deac?

Oh, and for those of you who are going to jump on the slavery and racism of the old Confederacy, please go to the website and read the Constitution. The slavery and racism has been denounced and is now fought against by the Confederacy which is basically about state rights over federal rights. I just say this in an attempt to keep this thread clean of politics.

You attempt to keep the thread clean of politics by making a fairly extreme political claim?