Hello all,
I'm trying to learn to fight in the P-47, against the FW190, and I am not getting anywhere. Mostly I am flying the P-47 D10 against the earliest 1943 model of the FW on the list. (type5?)
My problems:
I keep losing sight of the enemy, and if I move around to get a visual, I'm losing too much energy.
I can't seem to catch the FW- when I chase him he always extends and comes back around at me freely.
I find it hard to aim the P-47. When I'm nose-up I keep falling off, when I'm diving I have some control problems. If he overshoots me I can never get a bead on him.
Now I know the Jug is supposed to be good at diving and at high altitude performance but I can't make it pay off.
OK I admit I'm obviously not a great pilot, but this plane seems to present me a lot of problems that others don't. I seem to do reasonably well in lots of other planes against the AI.
Enough of my grumbling- can anyone help me on this?
sry i might not be to much help because i mainly use it for ground attack but what helped me with flying it was a DVD called light check Fighters the how to fly series one of them has the training video for a P47
Thanks, cpwn. That's a good insight into the limits and strengths of the Jug. Thanks also Spitfire 13.
I flew the Jug for years now with the mods I am rarely out of my F-86 so I am not sure how well the old Fat girl performes against some of the newer versions released of the 190. But one thing I would bet on if your going to fly the jug you must be patient, use boom and zoom tactics and never loiter at low altitudes. You must always be wary of your energy so anytime your not striking ground targets you should be above everything else. Long wide sweeping turns, dive down one pass extend back to the vertical if I was being persued I would always use my E to drag the enemy and bleed his. Don't set up for dead six shots set your dive to intercept high at an angle and aim for the wing root one good burst from those 8, 50's into a 190's wing root will send him to the ground quickly.
The Jug is a wonderfull plane, best ground strike aircraft in IL2, it is also an awesome fighter if used correctly, over the many years I have been flying this game the best Jug pilots I have ever seen were the most patient they picked there fights wisely and were seldom ever caught low with no energy.
The Jug is a plane you must have an affection for, it will take time to master the big ole fat girl but it will be time well spent once you find your way. An old freind of mine always said real men have Jugs!! Best of luck to you~S
The jug is the one aircraft I think it is most important not to be caught low and slow with. I guage online and offline flying much differently. Offline I can use the Jug well, the enemy never seems to use the turn advantage they have and I can normally just stay fast and make slashing passes at enemy formations. Against the 190 can be tricky when the enemy is very good. That is if you are under 20,000ft. The thing about the jug is that is seems to have the same turn rate and radius at 10k as it does at 25k. At high alt the Jug really shines. Up in the thin air, every fighter flies like the jug does at low alt, worse in most cases. The jugs big wing allows you to make solid turns at high alt and kill any sent against you.
Online, not very many people fly and fight at the nosebleed alts, so if you are in a jug at 25k chances are you are the king of the mountain. Use that advantage to make diving attacks. Watch your speed in a dive to make sure you dont lose control and try to be in position at the bottom of your dive, not the top. By this I mean that it is way better to use the energy (speed) you gain in the dive to climb back up to altitude then to use it maneuvering for a shot that will leave you slow with a long ride back up to alt.
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First thing that would be helpful is to know at what alt you plan on fighting at.
Each P47 has it's own little quirks and starts to come 'Alive' at a different alt.
The D-10 starts to come alive at around 16,000ft - 18,000ft.
The D-22 comes alive at around 13,000 - 15,000ft.
The D-27's start to liven up at around 8,000ft and really snap to life at 12,000ft.
The P47 D-10 is essentially a 'C' model with extra cooling flaps to help solve over heating problems of the 'B' and 'C' series.
Major changes weren't made until the D-15 (Extended Range) and the D-22.
The D-22 incorporated all the improvements of the D-15 plus the addition of the new 'Paddle prop' for better Rate of Climb (ROC) and a higher top speed.
The D-27 added even more fuel, upgraded engine/turbo components and a bubble top for improved visibility.
The D-27 (Late) is the same as the the D-27, but with the K14 'Ace Maker' gun sight instead of the old M9 Halo Sight.
The P47 in general will turn very well when at high speed, but likes to flop like a pancake if you turn too aggressively when slow. If you find yourself in a tight spot and need to get away fast or if your enemy is trying to run, nose over slightly, set the prop pitch to 88% and DIVE. There is no propeller in IL-2 can out dive a P47 and live! The P47 will not break apart until 718mph TAS. While there are planes that can out dive it initially, none of them can sustain the dive before they break apart. If you're in a dive with a Jug on your 6oc, you're dead already. He will catch you very soon.
With that said, if you are diving after or away from someone, the only P47 that will really retain it's 'E' on the deck is the D-27. It will hold appx 380mph as long as you don't make any really aggressive moves and have it trimmed right.
At alt. the only plane that really gives a P47 a hassle is the TA-152 H, and only above 30,000 ft. (When he can kick in the Nitro). Anything else is meat for a P47. When fighting a plane that can out turn you, get him high. Almost every German Plane, save the TA-152 H, will fall off at 25,000 - 26,000 ft and be useless when they hit 28,000ft. I don't know how many times I've out climbed an FW from 12,000ft, dragged him up to 25,000 only to zoom up to 30,000ft+, flip around on him as he stalls and shoot in in the top of the pit as I come back down on him. Just remember to stay fast and be gentle on the stick. The P47 doesn't start to loose power until it's above 35,000ft. I've taken a D27 as high as 45,000ft, but it was like flying a brick in syrup.
Though I fly through the valley of death, I will fear no evil.....
For I am the meanest SOB in the valley!
![[Image: JollySignature.jpg]](http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/ss344/rlakely/JollySignature.jpg)
Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'll spend some time flying without an opponent, just practicing dives, turns, etc. I am starting to appreciate the 'feel' of the P-47, eventually I will learn how to use it.
I did some dives and recoveries while barely touching the stick- just a bit to keep the wings level. That was pretty impressive in regaining altitude. I wonder if you don't touch the stick in this situation if you get the best efficiency- provided you're trimmed ok and then you start steering before you would begin a loop.
One thing about the P-47 here- it has some of the greatest skins in the game. Thanks to all the skinners.
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bent propeller Wrote:I did some dives and recoveries while barely touching the stick- just a bit to keep the wings level. That was pretty impressive in regaining altitude. I wonder if you don't touch the stick in this situation if you get the best efficiency- provided you're trimmed ok and then you start steering before you would begin a loop.
You'll get the best dive recovery and retain the most 'E' if you recover about half way through the climb.
ie. As you climb back out, just as the plane goes into the vertical, roll over onto your back and then let the plane continue to pull you back down as it climbs. Just before you come back to level, about 15deg., roll back out again to level the wings with the ground. In general, the P47 climbs best at around 200kts at ROC 2. (2000ft/min). You'll be able to sustain that speed/ROC all the way to alt due to the P47's Turbo/Super Charged engine. Other planes will start to fall off around 12,0000 - 15,000 ft.
Though I fly through the valley of death, I will fear no evil.....
For I am the meanest SOB in the valley!
I'll practice that later tonight. 'ROC2' -is that number indicated on the variometer?
Hopefully this thread will help other newbies so all your replies will benefit not only me.
Robert S. Johnson's 'Thunderbolt' is an inspiration for me in the P-47- One of the first books I read as a kid, and I still have it.
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Yes. The Variometer (Verticle speed indicator) shows verticle speed in increments of 1000 ft/min. 1 is 1000, 2 is 20000 etc.
Though I fly through the valley of death, I will fear no evil.....
For I am the meanest SOB in the valley!
If using the D-10 you are really limited to slashing attacks in this game, and much of the problems you have fighting the Fw190 i also have using that particular model and the '43 190s.
I think its backwards to a degree although the P-47D-10 is slower in acceleration it should easily overtake a Fw190 in speed. I find it difficult to outrun 190s despite this, but it helps to use a shallow climb. Oddly, that was the tactic needed for 190s to escape P-47Cs prior to the introduction of the paddle prop.
Not to rant or flame, but i think there is something off with the modeling there. It might have something to do with how the P-47 bleeds off speed after leveling out after an extended dive.
The key is to just keep your speed up and if i engage with a P-47D-10 i always try to have at least a 1000m advantage. I avoid fights with 190s altogether.
Aiming is difficult, and partly because the game uses point convergence. It might be better or more consistent with a box spread like on the P-40s. I often wondered if a cone could be simulated for each bead. Even a single ground mounted gun has a dispersion radius depending on the range, and at 300m i think its somewhere in the neighborhood of 1ft. I've learned to hit with it just takes a bit of practice.
Bill
