[ACE-OF-ACES]

Just saw this in the UP forums

UP3.0 Questions
HaDeS: UP from 3.0 and onwards will be incompatible with the stock version of game.

Basically a fork (read split the IL2 community) in the road where there will be the UP version and the official 1C/TD version

That is to say when the official 1C/TD 4.11m patch comes out

UP users will no longer be able to fly in servers using 4.11m that allows mods!

I'm sure UP thinks they have their reasons?

But I don't think they have stopped to consider that a lot of IL2 users don't even use mods, and that a lot who do use mods want to stay current with the official 1C/TD updates/patches

The good news is if you are one who wants to stay current with the 1C/TD updates/patches and use mods you have a choice

HSFX 5.0

Which has already been out for months, supports mods in 4.10.1m, and will provide mod support on all future official 1C/TD updates/patches

So if you like to use mods online and fly in servers that use the official 1C/TD updates/patches and allows mods your choice is clear HSFX 5.0

[Dietz]

Will this matter if I do little or no online flying...that is to say will I be able to add 4.11 to an UP3.0 at all?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

that is to say will I be able to add 4.11 to an UP3.0 at all?

Nope

UP has decided to go thier own seperate way

As noted a true split in the comunity

I wish them good luck but knowing what I know about the general IL2 public I think they have made a bad choice.

[Dietz]

I guess I'll have to keep a copy of both going..after the disappointing start ( make that stutter...) of Cliffs of Dover,I don't mind.
Thanks!

[Salty54]

Actually with the new SAS Modact 3.2 you can have both UP3.0 and HSFX 5.0 and stock versions included in one common setup. It's designed to allow one setup, using common files for any of these choices, so you do not have to have multiple setup versions, with duplicate files. Pretty ingenious really.

[Dietz]

Yes I had read that the SAS Mod would be amazing! :OO

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Actually with the new SAS Modact 3.2 you can have both UP3.0 and HSFX 5.0 and stock versions included in one common setup.

Interesting statment when you consider that UP 3.0 is not even out yet..

So maybe that is what they plan on doing?

It should/could work with 4.10.1 but once 4.11 comes out this may change, in that as the title says UP is not going to support any offical 1C/TD patches post 4.10.1 (ie 4.11, 4.12, etc)

On that ntoe this merged concept came up at the UP forums awhile back..

And BOOMER from UP recomends you use seperate installs.. Not sure what he bases that on but considering he is close to the UP development and thus may have some inside info as to why it is not a good idea to merge UP with other mods.. You might want want to take his advice

And in light of UP 3.0 not supporting official patches past 4.10.1 I think it would be a good idea to keep at least two copies

1) Offical 1C/TD with HSFX 5.0
2) UP 3.0

In that Ill just bet that once 4.11 comes out this merged thing will either no longer work or be so complex that it is not worth doing

[Apollo_13]

Back on the UP Bashing bandwagon I see LOL

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Back on the UP Bashing bandwagon I see LOL

Back on the baseless accusations bandwagon I see LOL

And it is easy to spot when you and yours are in that defensive mode

Because you fail to list/quote one thing that I said that was inaccurate

Therefore the only way you can consider what I said to be bashing

Is if you consider stating the facts to be bashing

Nice try

But no sale

[Fireskull]

Guys,


Take a minute here and think about this.

Everybody has had there say here, so let's make the move to better things.




Fireskull

[F22-Raptor-2006]

Hmm, not quite the full story or far from it but anyway. ACE-OF-ACES perhaps I missed one of your other threads because I don't see one in the HSFX forum saying something along the lines that it's designed for SEOW and if you are really interested in online servers for dogfighting rather than campaigns the obvious choice would then be UP.

On another note, as 4.101m has an old version of zuti mds and UP3 has a newer version of zuti mds (which also has mutli-crewing, something quite big in terms of online dogfight servers) so the default and UP3 servers will be incompatible anyway.

P.S. Your comment sounds like saying UP2.0 will not support 4.10 or HSFX4 will not support 4.10.... If people do support a version the massive amount of changes means that it will be likely that it will be called a new version.

[Guest]

Aces, have you ever considered the possibility that 4.11 won't support mods? It has been threatened by members of TD in the past and considering the difficulty the modding community has had adapting to 4.101m, I would not be surprised if they pursued this route. In addition, who even said that a 4.11 patch will come out? TD have advertised they are working on some features, but remember that 4.10 came out a year late AND the amount of issues it caused to even stock games were significant. So I would not expect a 4.11 patch anytime soon.

As for UP3.0 being incompatible with the 'stock' version of the game, well every UP, HSFX, even UI, has been incompatible with the stock version of the game. That is nothing new. What you are kicking a fuss up about is the talks that the major modding sites are not going to support future official patches. I can tell you now as a senior member of SAS, this is not 100% the case. If 4.11 requires minimal work to adapt to mods, then we will use it. If it causes the absolute clusterf*ck of issues that 4.10 had OR TD lock the patch, then we have no choice but to split off our development. To put it simply, our decision is based entirely on what TD decide to do. It won't be our decision that splits the community, but theirs.

Lets consider the Il-2 community. There are a few who are convinced that mods are evil, buggy or waste of time, so they will not be affected by TD's decision. Then there is HSFX, who are a small bunch of dedicated people who play SEOW (and would like to remain that way without excess advertising), Histomod (again, small dedicated bunch) and then the vast majority are distributed between UP, SAS and related sites. As for online play,the majority of large servers and squadrons use UP, followed by stock (with a few SEOW servers and occasional Histomod after that). If TD locks 4.11, stock game is fine but ALL modding packs will be affected. Hence it would be in the communities best interest for the major packs to abandon the official patches and work on improving what they have (which in quality and quantity already far exceeds TDs efforts, especially considering sound packs, effects and wide screen support). Why waste the time and effort working on an official patch when the 'official' team don't want you to? Again to reinforce my point, it is up to TD. If they want to split the community, they can. UP and SAS have opted to keep an open mind and adopt whatever best fits our community interests.

Considering that you praise yourself on being a 'fact finder', I'm amazed you have drawn some pretty incorrect conclusions based on the information freely available. I sense a bit of old 'I don't like UP' bias in your post And most of all, a lack of understanding of what it actually takes to prepare a pack like HSFX or UP. I wouldn't be surprised if HSFX jumped off official patches if TD made it too difficult to mod 4.11

Now SAS and UP appreciate that you next time check your information and not post inflammatory remarks across the community. Oh and whilst most people would be happy for free advertising, the SEOW crowd really don't want every man and his dog interfering with their campaign, so probably lay off pumping HSFX to everyone :wink: And I'm sure even Deutchemark doesn't appreciate one of his own trying to start a flame war at his own site.

[Deutschmark]

Ok guys, lets keep this to a civil discussion please.
Warning!
I will say now, if it starts going south I will can the thread
And those I determine made it go south.
So let keep it peaceful please and have a good discussion.

Thank you.
Deutschmark

[Monguse]

Regardless what anyone says HSFX can be used for dogfight servers as well. For a fact we have been using HSFX for online dogfight campaigns for two years without issues.

If anyone has real facts to the contrary with hard facts, please post.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

The following is provided for those that are seeking answer and info to make informed decisions..

That is to say I am not replying to F22-Raptor-2006 as much as I am replying to those who may be reading this thread to point out F22-Raptor-2006s omissions and errors

Before we begin, take note that F22-Raptor-2006 did not address, let alone refute anything that I said.

This is a typical tactic used by those who wish to take the focus of the thread off the subject at hand.

The subject at hand being that UP3.0 will not support any official 1C/TD patches after 4.10.1m, put another way UP3.0 will be incompatible with IL-2 servers and users that upgrade their version of IL-2 to 4.11m when it comes out. Thus splitting the IL-2 community into to camps, one being the UltraPack camp and the other being the official 1C/TD camp that includes HSFX 5.0 and other mods and mod packs.

With that in mind lets take a look at F22-Raptor-2006 weak attempt to take the focus of this thread off the subject at hand

F22-Raptor-2006
Hmm, not quite the full story or far from it but anyway.

Note that F22-Raptor-2006 is implying that I did not give the full story.. But also note that he actually did not say anything at all.. This is a typical tactic used by those who don't have anything to support what they are saying.. The goal being to discredit someone by accusing them of something and hoping no one notices that they didn't provide any quotes let alone proof to support their accusation. Put another way, if I had said something that was in-accurate it would be a simple mater to quote what I said and than address the error.. The fact that F22-Raptor-2006 did not do that and had to resort to this weak baseless tactic actually gives more credit to the things I have said, not less. But only an alert reader would pick up on that, which is why I went the the extra effort to point it out for those that may not be paying attention.

Now lets take a look at what F22-Raptor-2006 said next

F22-Raptor-2006
ACE-OF-ACES perhaps I missed one of your other threads because I don't see one in the HSFX forum saying something along the lines that it's designed for SEOW and if you are really interested in online servers for dog fighting rather than campaigns the obvious choice would then be UP.

Note that F22-Raptor-2006 is trying to float the myth that HSFX can only be used for online SEOW campaigns. This borders on pure lie but I will give F22-Raptor-2006 the benefit of the doubt that he actually belive this myth, even though one has to wonder how one such as he who claims to be so mod maker SAVVY how he could fall for such a myth, but I digress. It is true that the core folks that make HSFX have done it and do it to enhance their online SEOQ campaigns, but it is not true that HSFX can only be used for online SEOW campaigns. The features added to IL2 via HSFX are there for anyone that wants to use them, but these features are not forced upon anyone to use them. On that note I challenged anyone reading this thread to tell us what feature F22-Raptor-2006 is referring to but will not say that excludes HSFX from being by those really interested in online servers for dog fighting rather than campaigns.. Trust me this challenge will go un-answered! Why? Because as I noted this is a myth that people who are trying to promote 'other' mod packs trot out when trying to take the focus off the topic at hand.. It is sad how many people fall for this myth, which again is why I went to the extra effort to point it out for those that may not be paying attention.

Now lets take a look at what F22-Raptor-2006 said next

F22-Raptor-2006
On another note, as 4.101m has an old version of zuti mds and UP3 has a newer version of zuti mds (which also has multi-crewing, something quite big in terms of online dogfight servers) so the default and UP3 servers will be incompatible anyway.

Note that F22-Raptor-2006 is pointing out one good aspect of UP3.0, that being a newer version of zuti mds, but for anyone that makes missions they can tell how how nice it is to finally have a standardized version of zuti mds incorporated into IL-2, a version that is stable and something they can count on. Or anyone that tried to join a server that was running one version of zuti mds and they had another, so this issue is really user dependent. Some will find the benefits of having a stable version that has been inspected and incorporated by 1C/TD out weights the benefits of multi-crewing and some will not. But from what I have heard about multi-crewing I think most will find that it does not out weight the benefits of a stable standards official 1C/TD version.

Now lets take a look at what F22-Raptor-2006 said next

F22-Raptor-2006
P.S. Your comment sounds like saying UP2.0 will not support 4.10 or HSFX4 will not support 4.10....

Here is another example of F22-Raptor-2006 trying to cast doubt and/or discredit what I said.. As before the indicator being that he did not provide any quote let alone proof that I said such things, again is why I went to the extra effort to point it out for those that may not be paying attention.

Now lets take a look at what F22-Raptor-2006 said next

F22-Raptor-2006
If people do support a version the massive amount of changes means that it will be likely that it will be called a new version.

To be honest I have no idea what F22-Raptor-2006 is trying to imply here.. It sounds more like wishful thinking on his part than anything to do with what I or anyone else said, thus chalk it up to an attempt by him to try and muddy the waters of this thread in another weak attempt to take the focus off the topic at hand