[Billfish]

First off, thanks all who contributed to the U.I. 1.1, assembled it, made the mods, and made it available with the intent to have a more secure option available for those wishing it and where those utilizing it will all be on the same page.

Yet as I look over what is included it strikes me that considering the intent, it might be possible to reduce the overall size of the patch and therefor make it easier for folks to download, for AAA to have hosted, yet in the end meet the same goal as before leaving it to the user to make up the difference to match their needs.

A good example of this might be maps.......Though one of the favorite types of mods out there, folks still on the whole online (as that is where the U.I.'s intent really shines), make it a point to state a mission is using "X" map, and often the version. Many even supplying links it just part of the M.O. for most hosts. In kind maps are not something that could possibly compromise the security aspect. Oh sure it would be great if all are using "Mars map 2.3" vs. it's earlier versions, yet in the end it has no effect on play past the point of having it or not.

What IMLTHO needs to be included in the U.I. are aspects wherein having varied versions can cause conflicts between players.......Say for instance the Piper Cub is released, yet in version 1.1 it is detuned to fly at a more realistic speed (FM), then someone using 1.0 has advantage. Another simple examply is "Buffy's Flak Mod", many of those I fly with use it really enjoying it for the effects, yet to be fair and frank if you have it you gain an instant advantage over others on spotting enemy activity (lingering flak bursts).....That is another example of the type of mod that should be included.

Another example, mods like Fireball's Bombbay Doors Plus need to be included as they offer effects that "demand" all players have it or they get something different (that aspect being the external views mod....don't have it and you're full internal). Mods like that deffinitely need to be included as you have, as without it players are not on a level playing field.

Lastly, things like skins an obvious type of thing to exclude, yet aspects like cockpits not so much.....What I mean by that is, a generic or general patch requiring a cockpit for an aircraft means that cockpit is intended to be usable by all. Now granted, folks put a lot of work into things such as that yet some players quite simply cannot use them or at least reap the benefits. To that end, high resolution mods should be replaced with their lower resolution counterparts IF available. Leave it up to the individual users to get the higher if they want it.........That aspect goes with all things be they planes, objects, cockpits, maps.....If included in the U.I. it should be with the intent that ALL who use the U.I. will be able to use that aspect.

Now I could go through and check what I think should be or not be included based on the above criteria.....Yet I don't make em, supply em, or host them so it's not my place to make such decisions.

I only say this in that the U.I. concept is a great one........and I think a hair more thought as to content perhaps even polling online players might serve you and the end user well.

Thanks again for all your efforts and work,

K2

[WWSandMan]

While I was somewhat shocked at the vast size of the 1.1 UI set, it could easily have been much larger. And it could have been smaller, with much less content. I'll venture a guess that while 1.1 represents more than the basic skeletal mod structure absolutely necessary, it is much less than the fully fleshed-out version it could have become. There are arguments to be made for either case ("download size already too large" or "so many great mods are missing") ... but there's little chance of appeasing the entire community. A compromise had to be reached.

1.1 is a big pill to swallow. Hopefully future versions or revisions will be limited in scope to specific areas with a much smaller download package. I believe I read that to be the intent.

Now... if we could get a listing of the various released mods that will affect client connection ability to a server with security settings high (crt=2), *and* get an easy method of changing mod profiles (renaming groups of mods to activate or de-activate them) without having to move entire folders back and forth in order to maintain compatibility with various servers, we'll be in business. (my hopes are with Recon for the necessary tool)

[JoJo_Dancer]

Now... if we could get a listing of the various released mods that will affect client connection ability to a server with security settings high (crt=2),

This should have been in the readme IMHO. Why is it taking so long for a list of what effects CRT=2 and what doesn't. The FPS hit on my old rig is killing the experience... plus why is it such a secret or should I have to go and test to see what gets me kicked and what doesn't..

Can we please get a tag line in all future mods or WIP's that labeled it as Class and Non-Class so we know beforehand if it effects our CRT=2 compliance?

I.e. - If i do not need the fw190 bar out mod because I don't fly FW's why do I need to have it.. etc..

~Salute

[Forager]

I think this, from page 1, post 1 of the 1.1 download page makes it pretty clear, what more do you need? (The link is inoperative)


"While it was our intention the unified installer 1.0 was to be updated we have found some older mods do not adhere to the structure we currently have, we have decided to ensure a good clean installation for everyone. Moreover, having the ability to roll up all new aircraft and objects in one installation ensures compatibility with server side checkruntime=2 compatibility.

In the future, it is our intention that 1.1 will provide a reliable base by which we only release fixes or compatible add-on mods into the common structure.

As noted before, Version 1.1 enforces checkruntime and for those that want to enforce crt=2 for coops and online wars, may do so knowing everyone is using the same set of mods. Therefore, we strongly suggest to all users not add new mods or aircraft to this installation. If however you wish to add mods please make a separate copy of the game and add those items to the copied game."

Clear as a sunny day.

[Trooper117]

Yes it is clear.. unfortunately this leaves me with my present situation.. I have my own modded to the hilt game for offline, because I love all the other mods that are not, or advised not to use in the new UI..
I also enjoy playing IL2 War online.. they have their own seperate modded game to ensure compatibility as well, so that's my second installation.
Now with the UI v1.1 which we are told not to add to again for future online compatibility, I have a third IL2 installed.. (I see a consistent trend emerging.. lol)

[Forager]

I think we will need a terrabyte HD for this game soon.

I had 3 versions loaded, finally got tired of keeping them in line, did the UI 1.1 thing and dumped the rest.

Then I got out the knife and cut over a gig of stuff I will never use, backed up some stuff I might use, added all the goodies UI left out and now the game loads in less than an hour.

Actually, after the initial load time, which seems to be very slow, the game loads in less than 45 seconds, probably much quicker on faster machines.

I know a CRT server would probably electrocute me on sight but online wars are not my thing and, as long as CRT is off, I think I can jump in a coop once in awhile.

[JoJo_Dancer]

Yeah that's a list of what's in it. Doesn't tell me that Skinmod can be disabled and not effect your CRT=2 compliance, etc..

What would be clear would be a list of mods that effect CRT=2. Such as Buffy flaks can be added and run in a CRT=2 server even if the server does not have it without being kicked, along with some other map textures etc.. Knowing what's a class file and a non class file is secret info you have to try out for yourself I guess...

Additionally what I was getting at there are several folders in the MODS folder for UI 1.1 a simple list showing which ones are CRT=2 required and which ones can be disabled and not effect your ability to join would have been nice.

and future mods should have in their 1st post whether they effect your CRT=2 compliance.

[Forager]

If it is in UI 1.1 and you take it out, you are not compliant.
If it is NOT in UI 1.1 and you put it in, you are not compliant.

This statement:
"In the future, it is our intention that 1.1 will provide a reliable base by which we only release fixes or compatible add-on mods into the common structure. "

Well, if you start with a reliable base and remove something from it, it is no longer a reliable base, right?
Leave the skinmod in.

This statement:
"As noted before, Version 1.1 enforces checkruntime and for those that want to enforce crt=2 for coops and online wars, may do so knowing everyone is using the same set of mods. Therefore, we strongly suggest to all users not add new mods or aircraft to this installation. If however you wish to add mods please make a separate copy of the game and add those items to the copied game."

Quite clear, want to be crt=2 compliant leave 1.1 alone and add or subtract mods to or from another copy of the game.

I can be pretty slow on the uptake at times, but I cannot understand just what is missing from the instructions that is leading to some guys not being able to figure out what goes or what stays....

[JoJo_Dancer]

Because I can add things like Buffy flaks and have it activated and be compliant in a CRT=2 world. That's my point. Also there are mods in the mod folder of UI 1.1 I can disable like skin mod, fw190 bar etc that allow me to join CRT=2 and be compliant.

What aren't you getting...

A list of what mods are class and non class would be nice to know so you can have a bare minimum install if you wanted or add other eye candy for yourself that doesn't effect anyone but you the client.
UI 1.1 left alone and disable folders that are non class allows you to join CRT=2 and not get kicked. Like prop tex, etc... There are some others that can be added beyond UI1.1 a list should be created somewhere noting them as a impact to crt=2 and not so the noob's know...

The bs is in the statement that "so everyone uses the same files". It should read so everyone uses the same class files. I can have skinmod off, buffy flaks added, flushy clouds off. I could add Invisible cockpits and transparent clouds and still be flying around in a CRT=2 world without getting kicked. Since they are non class and do not mess with FM's DM or buttons from what I've seen.

With Skinmod on I could create default skins that were all florescent and fly in online servers with every plane appearing in these high vis colors no matter what skin you had on... I don't but I'm sure some that do... All I'm saying is just because you have UI 1.1 doesn't mean CRT=2 is secure, Skinmod is the biggest CRT=2 killer IMHO, how secure is it when the server doesn't enforce the skin?

That's what I'm saying... Don't think because a server is CRT=2 that people are flying all the same MODS some have added things and disabled things are are not getting the boot. All CRT=2 does is ensure FM and DM and Objects are the same for each it does nothing with "visual" hacks. But it seems that isn't wanted to be out there, the impression is CRT=2 makes everyone fly the same files, it doesn't...

[Forager]

There is no way AAA can make everyone happy, this topic is proof of that.

I will leave it to the online warriors to sort out.

I hope you get the improvements you seek.

[Trooper117]

I can fully understand his frustration here.. I fly online alot. I also like many mods and not all of them are contained within the UI..
But if the UI is trying to get everyone to use that same version for online compatibility I think it will struggle.. new stuff is continualy coming out and of course punters will want to include it in their new install.. now that is the big problem.. If new content was withheld until a stack of stuff was ready to put into an update patch and then issued, life would be easier.
However, if people keep releasing mods peacemeal, then of course it's going to get used by all and sundry.. (me too, I would want to get to grips with it straight away.. who wouldn't)
I'm running out of space to keep installing new versions, and I suspect there are many more..

[BlitzPig_EL]

In order to know what is and is not CRT=2 compliant would take an army of beta testers working round the clock forever, as new mods are constantly put up for DL at the discretion of the individual modder.

Until the uncontrolled release of betas is stopped at all the different modding communities, ensuring CRT compliance will be a nearly impossible task.

The folks that are trying to organize things in a more rational way work for free, have real world jobs/families/lives, and cannot be expected to put in the hours necessary to do what all of you are ranting about. They are doing it for the love of the sim, nothing more.

Patience grasshoppers, patience.