[Fireskull]

Hi,

Things are still developed in relative secrecy:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47842589/


Fireskull

[caldrail]

My immediate assumption (along with everyone else) is that the X-37B is a test vehicle for future militarisation of near-orbit, but it has occurred to me that SAR applications are going to be equally important if mankind is serious about colonising strange new worlds, life, and civilisations. So far no-one has established any formal SAR ability and with a manned mission to Mars on the drawing board, never mind what the Chinese are up to right now, sooner or later we're going to have to figure out how to rescue people up there.

Now I'll sit and wait for helicopters and black vans halting urgently outside my home. Hi Mr SWAT guy. Coffee? Tea? ... Or you'd prefer me to lie on the ground?.... Well, okay.... Since you have lots of big shiney guns...

[Serpiko]

If I had to guess, I'd say that the "space race" is still ongoing... it just changed some rules: instead of being an expensive struggle to be "the first one" to make something, it is now an "endurance" competition, where the winner is the one who gets a valid, reliable and cost effective (thus affordable) space vector, granting the "space superiority" in terms of "I can send to space everything I want, when I want, with minimum risks and low costs". We're not just talking about military applications, but scientific research and commercial interests as well. Whoever reaches this objective, be it a nation or a private company, is likely to become one of the greatest powers of the 21st century.

[Fireskull]

Interesting thoughts you guys have on this. Some of that came to my mind very quickly, too.

There must be no doubt that such craft as the X-37B and X-37C may be used for different purposes. The global economic problems of recent years seem to have reduced the mainstream ethusiasm for space endeavors, wouldn't you say? Regardless of that, in the USA our military department of government has been given much freedom. Leaders must know about this one here in a general sense, but obviously the American and world public is the last to know about secret developments.

Billions of dollars per year seem to disappear or the accounting does not compute right. Many people realize that the money often goes to secret programs. Who knows what things might be revealed in the future. hock:

The move to space no doubt is inevitable. Waiting for any country and humanity might be very risky with the possibility of mass destruction, I feel.


Fireskull

[Serpiko]

I've been recently reading a brief history of the USA-URSS space competition in the '50s and '60s. Back then, both sides wanted to prove that their own political/economical/cultural system could bring the world to a future of wealth and progress. In this sense, the symbolic value of space exploration became even greater than scientific or practical results.

At that time, Man had gone into space dreaming of getting beyond the stars. Nowadays, it looks like the general interest about space travels is focused on the concrete benefits they can bring to dear ol' Earth.

[Fireskull]

Serpiko,


I won't go into politics here but I wish the USA was doing more in space and the international community including China I wish would cooperate more.



Fireskull

[Serpiko]

I don't think mankind will do much more than sporadic Solar System explorations until at least two of "Star Trek" assumptions become true:

1) All people around the world work together for the common interest;

2) A whole new technology for traveling quickly to extreme distances becomes available.

And, to be honest, it looks to me that an united world is far more science fiction than a warp engine... :-?

[Fireskull]

Yes.

I agree.

It is still nice to fantasize about it.


Fireskull

[caldrail]

I don't think mankind will do much more than sporadic Solar System explorations until at least two of "Star Trek" assumptions become true:

1) All people around the world work together for the common interest;

2) A whole new technology for traveling quickly to extreme distances becomes available.

And, to be honest, it looks to me that an united world is far more science fiction than a warp engine... :-?

Nor is it a good thing. Does that sound a bit less than the usual 'I want world peace' thing? TYhe fact is human beings, whether they like it or not, are a species of life on this planet. Competition between us maintains our strength, both because of the need to be able to repsond and the darwinian survival of the fittest. Now before anyone assumes I'm a right wing neo-fascist or something, I'm not talking about the usual bigotry between race or creed that goes on in the world though obviously this nasty side of human character will always exist - it's what we are.

Note that societies that are basically peaceful tend to be conquered somewhat easily. If we achieve peace, humanity would eventually become rather like dodo's. Docile, witless creatures. Nature does that. Certain qualities vanish if they aren't needed, both in physical and behavioural traits. It is unfortunately our competivive nature, our social behaviour, and our latent aggression that makes us a successful species besides the usual quotes of intelligence and language skills. In fact, we're the only species of human being still left. The others have died out, and even we nearly vanished competely at one point in prehistory.

Personally I don't like the extent to which humanity squabbles and harms. Sadly that's the nature of the beast, and also the result of our adaption to our enviroments.

[Fireskull]

Caldrail,

While I agree that what you are saying is true, I feel there is more to people. Survival of the fittest sure is a factor and in the past the creatures which had things too easy tended to not adapt in order to be ready for the next challenge.

Humans are much more complex and capable than the rest of the life on this planet, as we know. I am convinced that characterstics inside people have developed to a level of taking a sub-life form of their own. It's a realization of individual traits that are so sophisticated that they are a sub-intelligence in their own right. For example, we can get the weather report watching television while we talk with somebody on the phone. If we lack a skill, then we may learn it to make a living. This flexibility comes from our complexity, wouldn't you agree?

Is it possible that we have reached such a level of development that our survival as individuals depends on our diversity? Perhaps that diversity itself is creating challenges to adapt. In a complicated world, I feel that the demand to be smart is greater than ever because of the ever increasing numbers of changes and speed of change in the world.

Technology has created a new demand for intelligence, replacing the slowly fading challenges of the naked environment with a self - sustaining requirement for adaptability. The change in the world causes this to continue. As technology advances, we are required to be flexible in order to make a living which includes communication with other people.

Both mentally and physically, we are challenged to be able to cope. A space program, weather private or public, will help the need for more resources found beyond earth, utilization of talent, creation of work, and more room for an exploding population. I feel that everything is strongly or loosely connected.

Good things may yet happen, but something we have not even touched here is this: "Where there is a will, then there is a way."


Fireskull

[Fireskull]

Serpiko and Caldrail,

I agree that a unified world aimed at reaching the heavens seems far from us, but what if we ever get assistance from beings of other parts of the universe? What if we already have that help in secret or STEALTH? How amazed the world would be to discover that extraterrestrials have directly intervened in the development of humanity for eons, making Earth a kind of zoo for them? :wink:


Fireskull

[Serpiko]

This is getting really high... :wink:

I think I more or less agree with Caldrail about its "evolutionary" explanation... although it leads to quite dark scenarios.

As for the "external help" Fireskull talks about, it is theorically possible... BUT let me report here what a certain guy named STEPHEN HAWKING said during a world scientific conference not long ago: mankind shouldn't be eager to welcome extraterrestrial "visitors", because they would more likely be searching for resources, rather than for friends.

"Earthern" history can provide enough examples of what happens when a population is "visited" by another one with a vastly superior technology.

As long as mankind is "caught" while still confined on Earth, the odds are against us. Consider two hypothesis:

1) Aliens are a "beastly" civilization that only cares about own survival: Earth = prey

2) Aliens are "benevolent": even if they want to be our "mentors", competition will still exist. Do you think they would let us progress enough to become a serious rival? Or, knowing human nature, a threat to them?

[Fireskull]

:lol:

Yeah, it is already very high.

Okay, good points you have there.

I would think that a civilization millions, maybe billions, of years old would not feel that we would ever be a major threat to them. If they are advanced enough to reach Earth, then I doubt that they need our recources. What if they are good? What if they are bad? Perhaps one civilization of extraterrestrials is working to prevent another one from conquering us? Maybe one of them only wants to disappoint a rival one by interferring with Earth, a kind of cold war of the galaxy?

Stephen Hawking is a skeptic. He doesn't believe because science has not seen. In reality there are many things in the universe which are undetectable by our natural senses. Before the first Europeans came to North America, the natives existed but almost nobody believed life to existed beyond their known world until the explorers saw the natives. Many things exist out there which we do not know.

It is good for people to hear both sides and be better informed. It also creates more interest.

How will space travel progress over the next 20 years? What about 40 or 60 years of development?


Fireskull