Map Object Placement Errors
#16

Oh I know, all of the AAA Staff do a great job at that, I've read all of your Rules and posts on New Maps!

I ment just have the right map for the right campaign, because were talking about multiple copies of maps. But your right, you would just need to make sure you had the right (Author Prefix) version of a map for any given campaign you have for said map.

Just looking at this from a Mission Developers point of view. We as Mission Developers might need to (As is the New Special Download policy now on M4T) just take the extra effort in ReadMe's to link/explain which map our campaigns use, in specifics.

:roll: Not that most of that might be a given now that I re-read it. *smirk* :oops:
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#17

Dixiecapt Wrote:Oh I know, all of the AAA Staff do a great job at that, I've read all of your Rules and posts on New Maps!

I ment just have the right map for the right campaign, because were talking about multiple copies of maps. But your right, you would just need to make sure you had the right (Author Prefix) version of a map for any given campaign you have for said map.

Just looking at this from a Mission Developers point of view. We as Mission Developers might need to (As is the New Special Download policy now on M4T) just take the extra effort in ReadMe's to link/explain which map our campaigns use, in specifics.

:roll: Not that most of that might be a given now that I re-read it. *smirk* :oops:


yup, i hear you m8 ..... that is on campaign builders to provide clear instructions which map was used and location for obtaining it ..... like with skin packs

i do believe time has come for making clear rules/guide regarding mission/campaign structure , info and upload ...


cheers
Z

Big Grin
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#18

Thanks for all the replies guys. It's great to hear from my old cronies.
I'm glad the overall response to my post has been positive. I was concerned that I might have to put on my flame-retardant suit. LOL!

lofi, thanks for the info on why houses etc. might appear in the "wrong" places. That is very useful information that will be of great benefit when I dive into map making.

fly, thanks for the vote of confidence. I will try my best to live up to your (and everyone else's) expectations. (BTW, I'm glad to see that Catherine Bell is still in your sig. GRRRR!)

I have a lot to learn about map making (everything in fact), so it will be a while before I even release any WIP's.

Maps are the one thing that will help keep interest in this sim alive for a long time IMO. It got me thinking though about what map to do. What came to my mind was Spain, circa 1937 or so. Is anyone else working on such a project? If not, where would be a good place to find topographical and historical maps of Spain during that time? I suppose I could go to the library (we have a great Main Library here) and check some books out but getting the info uploaded to my computer might be difficult, not to mention the possibility of violating copyright laws.
Or am I trying to bite off too much for a first-time project?
I would also consider, once I have learned use of the tools (which I have already downloaded) to enter into a map making project with others which might actually be a better place to start.


Now I want to address one other issue...
Cannon, you are one of the most respected skinners ever in the IL-2 community. I was going to ask if I could just rearrange some of the objects on your map but it's obvious you don't want anyone touching it. Fair enough. But given your attention to detail as evidenced in your skinning abilities, I'm surprised that you are so vehemently objecting to any "corrections". As with using others templates I intended to make it clear that it was just a modification of "your map".
To quote lowfighter;
Quote:However, don't FORGET that you use TEXTURES and OBJECTS which the authors didn't give you permission to use
The work done here is not like the skin templates you made where you would draw the panel lines from scratch and develop your own weather/paint/texture layers which gave your skins the indelible "CannonUK" signature. That was truely "your work". I see this as very much a community effort. I agree that obtaining permission and crediting properly is mandatory to preserve the "intellectual property" values of created work but to flatly refuse to have anyone touch your work for it's betterment? I had no intentions of changing anything other than to realign some of the objects. Yet you seem to think that if anyone touches it they would add what? The World Trade Center buildings in Paris?
As said, it is YOUR work and if that's what you want I'll not breach that directive.

As for me, if, and when, I release anything and someone can make it better, I would encourage them to do so. All I would ask is to just give me credit as the "original author". I don't pretend to be the schnizzle of anything as there are many others probably more talented than me, and there always will be. But I've seen some excellent templates come out since Team Normandie started releasing our works and I believe that we, as a team, contributed to sparking others to attempt the same things. And the results have been at times quite spectacular. I hope that this is what will continue to happen here at AAA and I hope that I can add my small part in making this great flight simulator the Best Of The Best.
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#19

Boris - thank you for your considered reply (unlike some others.)

My objection wasn't with your original comments. As the map is a beta I'm happy for people to point our errors and areas for improvement. Such issues would have been dealt with for my final version. What I objected to was people just encouraging you to go ahead and add whatever you want to the map.

Quote: I see this as very much a community effort.

Now this is where I disagree. I'm massively greteful to everyone that developed the tools that made modding and map building possible, but the hundreds of hours spent researching airfields at the National Archives, drawing map_c, placing textures, tweaking textures, placing bridges, adding objects, testing and re-testing - that's not a community effort. That's my effort.

Anyway, thanks for you response.

Joe
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#20

Excellent post Boris, that's the spirit and attitude that made all of this possible in the first place. You can be sure that you will get all of the help you need in your future work.


canonuk Wrote:My objection wasn't with your original comments. As the map is a beta I'm happy for people to point our errors and areas for improvement. Such issues would have been dealt with for my final version. What I objected to was people just encouraging you to go ahead and add whatever you want to the map.

Quote: I see this as very much a community effort.

Now this is where I disagree. I'm massively greteful to everyone that developed the tools that made modding and map building possible, but the hundreds of hours spent researching airfields at the National Archives, drawing map_c, placing textures, tweaking textures, placing bridges, adding objects, testing and re-testing - that's not a community effort. That's my effort.

And how will somebody who mod your map take it away from you, your version is always your version. When Maraz made Malta map letchik made his actors.static for that map and Maraz didn't have any problem to include letchik's version in download pack.

Do you think that you are above anybody else and that your work can't be modded? We are all modding somebody else work without any permission.It is OK to mod Oleg's work but your work can't be touched? That's called hypocrisy. After all what you are going to do if somebody makes another version of your map, you will sue them? :roll: :lol:

When I see this attitude I'm sorry that I helped this kind of person in any way but I'll be more careful in future.

FC
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#21

Didn't expect anything less from BeeBop Big Grin ...the man have my greatest respect as FMB wizard as well as one of the nicest guys over at the zoo .

As i said ,Boris you are very welcome here and if need any assistance regarding "map modding things" ( or anything else here ) please don't hesitate to let me know ... boards , PM or mail

cheers
Z
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#22

Cannon,
First let me thank you for a gentlemanly and civil response to my post despite the tone for which I apologize. I "read" into it an attitude that I now see wasn't there.
I wasn't aware that it was a beta map until I found the thread and saw the title. I received your map in an "Install Package" that contains many of the most popular mods. Knowing now that it is a beta I retract my "acid" comments. I look forward to the final release of this fine map. I have already made a couple of missions for my squad on it and we all enjoy it very much. I'm sure you don't want or need any help in finishing it but let me extend an offer to assist you in any way I am capable of if you think it might help.

FC,
Don't judge Cannon too harshly. If you have ever made a skin or a template (or a mod) you know how many long and hard hours go into it. Maps obviously, take much more effort and dedication. Once a person has expended that much energy into making something and then offering it for free to the community, they will feel a certain "ownership" in their work and will be wary of anyone who thinks they can do better. As the authors name will attach to it either directly or indirectly, anything that doesn't meet that authors standards will be painful for them as there will be some who will think that said author is not quite up to scratch. Plus, after all that work to have someone modify it and then not give credit either deliberately or accidentally is an affront to that authors hard work. So cut the man some slack. I think by reading his post you can gather that Cannon is quite the gentleman when approached with some respect.

~S~ to all.
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#23

@Boris .... regarding FC , trust me ... he does know all about hard work and hours spent :wink:

BTW, check your PM

cheers
Z
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#24

Boris - thank you for having the good grace and decency to reply in that way. Consider the matter resolved and forgotten Smile

Joe
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#25

Changing tack, slightly, has anyone else noticed that when saving or re-loading templates, objects seem to have "moved" of their own accord? I seem to notice this particularly with trench and sandbag objects, but it seems that if you do a line of any object, when you come back to reload the file, one of them has inevitably moved.

I'm sure it isn't my error, as the objects always seem to move by precisely the same distance....
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#26

We definitely saw that when working on The Slot, but have absolutely no idea s to the cause.
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