[Aymar_Mauri]

oh, i can see offliners that can do it, doing it..and all the more power to em

if and when i see "corrected" P38 mods, etc, im on them, and will then likely start DL campaigns stuff

i understand yoru sentiments precisely Aymar

Good to know.

but theres no denying, as bad as some ppl ahve gotten over the mod issue, FM tinkering is a hot rock, really hot..the prob is, one guy says "this is correct P38"...5 million others have thier own "correct" P 38

Well, and this is only hypothetical, it could be possible and advisable to create a council that has the contribution of many moders and historical experts from all origins and inclinations to create a community mod who's only interest is to insert the proper historical data in the files. Everyone of these people would be able to check the data and be certain that there were no bias and porking/uberizing of any plane for an hypothetical release of a correction mod.

This has been done is many other games and I do believe that it is possible if there is will and honesty. But maybe I'm just naive.

for the overall state of FUBAR-ed-ness among all types in game, id rather have everyone flying the same porked 38, than 42 completely different, yet "correct" 38s

You do realize that this is conforming to mistakes, right?

this all applies of course, to online

while there are servers i can go to with CRT=2, and the servers that run 409 (until 409 itself is broken/accessed), i couldnt care less about 2000kph U2s or whatever...i have the optioon of going to "cheat-free" servers to avoid that....whjen i dont mind supersonic biplanes, i go to 408 server and have fun

Precisely my point. IIRC, running in a CRT=2 closed server should and it seems to me safe. I can read about cheating here and there, but how much people has presented any proofs of it?

the prob is, once 409 is beaten, there will be little or no refuge from the spectre of cheating, or at least the threat of it

then we may see some servers going to password format...not good

I hardly think this will ever happen. And do you know why? IMHO, it is necessary to have a quite a bit of knowledge of the internal parts of the game to be able to cheat. So, the number of possible people doing it will be very low. Add to this the fact that most with the knowledge to do it will have more fun doing stuff other than cheating.

And referring to my previous words above: "I can read about cheating here and there, but how much people has presented any proofs of it?"...

But this has little to do with what I was referring. Which is offline moding.

again, i dont mind the idea that FM tweak/alteration will happen...but i simply cant imagine how it will go down if the time comes when several ppl can and will be seen doing it

i think the game was "good enough" to begin with; the mods have breathed new life into it, i feel its simply not worth the strife over FM crap for the mistakes that do exist in game, having flyables, reticles, maps, etc is more than enough as is

but thats just me 8)

Good point. To each is own. I really don't care about new flyables with wrong cockpits. But that's just me...

[Aymar_Mauri]

im distracted atm, sorry for inconcise relpys Aymar

On the contrary. You're being quite clear.

yea, i know oleg has been favorable to early war russian stuff, in the interests of "game balance"...SO lame....so hypocritical...and other "balance" compromises he has made

Precisely. This type of attitude coupled with the "I'm right be sure" is nothing more than trying to make fools out of people.

i always liek to mention his sources...WTF are they? im REALLY interested in where he got his data, and exactly what that data is, for the P 38...when several ppl send him 38 data from both lockheed, and NACA, and dismisses it as "propaganda", i cant imagine what higher power he could get his 38 data from.... :roll:

You're correct. And this has happened to many other planes where precise factory data was presented and sent to him. Sad, very sad...

cheaters easily caught? yes, most of them...there will always be losers with outreageous planes...its the crafty devils in +25 spits that look liek +18s or mustangIIIs in P51 bodies...VERY difficult to tell from ntrack viewing

I might be wrong, but one can see the difference between a Spit 18lbs and a 25lbs. I can do it offline and don't have a quarter of the experience that some other online guys have.

that said, iIMO the community will be largely self-policing, and those who do cheat, msot of them will indeed be weeded out

that the game is dead, or will die, is crap...that it will...that it already has changed, no denying

Correct. I doubt if any cheater can go free easily. At the most, just the guys who make only slight alterations.

Once again, and not trying to be a pain:

"I can read about cheating here and there, but how much people has presented any proofs of it?"...

Is it cheating or mass hysteria?

[Aymar_Mauri]

well if u ever did want oleg to do something about it contact them since they registered a few days ago with this forum!!!!!!!!! Perhaps u may change oleg's mind hopefully anyway.

What makes you think that now, with OM & team focusing on SoW and after all these years of people posting and sending clear and concise factory data that produced no results, would make any difference?

OM decided long he would make no changes, because he doesn't want to. Period.

Don't you think otherwise, because it's just not true.

[Aymar_Mauri]

So, the same religious dogmas apply here at AAA?

yeh, and i hope it will stay this way..

Even when clear mistakes are in the files such as incorrect wingspan and wingarea for Spitfire and Ta-152C? I have seen the EM and FM data that were extracted by other people.

This is what worries me. Oleg may well be entering the data in a specific way for the engine (eg. true wing area vs. a calculation based on approximate airflow patterns over the wing). All that it takes is an uniformed person who thinks that the FW-190 should be able to out turn a spitfire at all points in its envelope or that the La-7 is overmodeled...

Well, I got news for you. A simulation's accuracy is measured by the ability to enter proper RL data and get RL performance from the simulation engine. Other than that and you're just making divination and inventing stuff up. If OM's engine can't take RL data and output correct performance comparable to RL performance than you're telling me that he has made, at the very least, a faulty engine and, at the very worst, just a swindle.

And, please, don't talk about "uniformed person who thinks that the FW-190 should be able to out turn a spitfire at all points in its envelope or that the La-7 is overmodeled...".

I'm talking about inputing RL technical data in the engine not making stuff up for suiting one's perception.

Which is exactly what you're doing with your first post. You only talk like "it would be logical" or "feeling":

Additionally, deletion of the outer wing racks on the Ar-234 would be realistic.

Says who? You? Well I might be inclined to consider that just your fantasy. Have any books about that? Any Arado factory report where they mention it? If you have it, I'll be very happy if you can show it to me.

It would also be interesting to mount X-4 on them (this is more plausible than the TA-183 X-4 option which should be removed).

So, now it is "It would also be interesting", not "I have a Arado technical report..." ?

Seems we're going on impressions here. But then again this is just about 1946 planes. So, it just doesn't matter, right?

[Aymar_Mauri]

well if u ever did want oleg to do something about it contact them since they registered a few days ago with this forum!!!!!!!!! Perhaps u may change oleg's mind hopefully anyway.

hehe that will be some funny person.. not Oleg..
would be a nice joke if that member would became the best modder..

Well maybe Oleg has a sense of humor after all and it really is him... :wink:

[ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP]

Just because an engine works doesn't mean that you don't have to prepare that data for it. For instance entering everything in imperial instead of metric would probably not be a good idea.

My personal opinion is that we are, by and large, unqualified. I recall a debate on the P-47 climb rate at ORR. It turns out Oleg had it right and it took us twenty pages before we took into account the effects of opening the radiator.

It is like with genetic engineering. I am more comfortable with it when it is spurious. On the other hand if people think that they have a good "end" to justify the "means" - that is when things get dangerous.

For the X-4 I am not going on impressions I am going on rampant speculation. This is one instance where I know that there is a 90% chance that that is what Oleg had to go on.

The other material I have fairly good sources for. Everything is a "would" or "could" at this point as I am still setting up to begin work.

[JV69_BADA]

ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP is right about the go229, it would not be possible to change the type of engines, the first one was built for the bwm003, they had to copletely rebuilt (and enlarge) the center tubular section to be able to have the jumo's. on the other hand, the p60A,B or C was designed with the goal of beeing modulable regarding the engines. Anyway, the P60 was never build and the go229 sucked a lot as fighter plane having a lot of lateral instability :lol:
But about the Ar234 with X4....no good, at all...the only version that could have them was the nachtgall, the night version of the ar234,not the bomber version.
About the ta183, i would rather see a version with only 2 x4 and 2droptanks,knowing the glutiny of the first turbines, it seems more logical to me...but the one nice touch would be ,as in the 262, a seperated button fire for the guns....and not just one for all of them like we have now.
Anyway, i'm against FM beeing modified :twisted:

[Hellzone]

Well it's better to be against FM modding, if you find my youtube video i edited the Do-335 to take of vertical like the hinkel learch. :roll: I had my laughs, but others were like :twisted: :twisted: your going to die !!

[ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP]

I have decided to abandon this project. The flight model data is too exposed and it would be too easy for someone to cheat. I will only resurrect this if cheating becomes sufficiently widespread or I discover a way to obfuscate the files.

On my honour though, if I could annoy you guys I would.

[Metatron]

I fail to see the logic of a Fw Ta-183 with a tail snapping off at 700 km/h. There would be no point of it entering service. This game hypothesizes that it entered production, and therefore this fault would have been corrected in some way.

[ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP]

Realism over all else!

You can fly/crash the prototype and know that it is now 98% instead of 96% authentic!