[chas1963]

Either Certificate is sequestered in his secret AI lab creating the "Mother of all Mods" or the men with narrow ties have finally caught up with him and he's been dragged away. I hope it's the former.

He is probably still sleeping (lol)... I don't know how he kept that schedule of daily updates he was on before. He spoiled us...

[Snail]

Hi certificate,

another observation of reported issue. If somebody gives an order (attack my, attack fighters), planes start heading away somewhere... Well, this has something to do with waypoints. If the AI plane goes farther than aprox. 3 sectors away from predefined waypoint, it turns and returns to it. If a player doesn't have the waypoints turned on, it seems random, but it isn't. In offline campaign you must have this turned on and you have to fly along this predefined path (not farther than 2 sectors I would recommend). This is not the issue of this mod. However, further observations are needed.

[denbf109]

just downloaded ai v17. it works great, however the plane you're shooting at comes apart like a shattered piece of glass, ha. offline flying is fun again!!!...thx, denbf109

[Snail]

I've run a few missions offline. Guadalcanal map offline, seen this: Rufe chased B17 till the sea level, B17 crashed (OK so far), Rufe headed north, hit the hill in his way. No even a try to pull up... The difference between vanilla and 1.17 is simple. In vanilla AI tries to get above but it cannot because of (probably) the bomb or the predefined flight path. In 1.17 mod it doesn't even try and flies trough (tries to)... I hope it helps ti figure out what the problem is.

[doc_nele]

Uh, quite a lot of problems with "Karelian Hawks"... first, after shooting down some of SB's I ran out of ammo... and my AI wingman stops responding to any kind of plea to attack remaining ones (attack bomber, my target, everything failed)!? Then we ran onto MBR-2 floatplane (Wingman following me to it), and then again refused to shoot it down (on 2nd mission retry, I rammed it out of pure desperation).

Then, in mission to strafe some trucks... AI wingman makes a kamikaze run into AAA position (twice!). So, I had to do strafing myself and combat that MiG-3 (and in P-36 it is like, to cite, "like fat man running uphill") since it was doing constant slashing attacks... but this is probably mostly my fault (AI is AI, I guess).

But, the worse was when Po-2 attack airfild while flight was moving to another airport... Instead to abort the landing and annihilate them, they left me handling Po's whose rear gunners have put my engine ablaze, (those limited-swivel crackshots!), crying for help. All while my AI-colleagues were making all-normal landing on obliterated airfield (and all watching Commander's DC-3 becoming ground, and me becoming an airborne firework)

[doc_nele]

Akhem... Mr. Lapse again :oops: it was in Payback! Finnish Curtiss Hawks in 1941...

[Carnagexxx]

Hmmm, I think the AI Gunners in bombers are still to good
its still impossible to attack a single B17 Average Skill from behind, exspecially in a 109 with this anyoing oil window bug. Maybe the AI could be changed to target the whole plane, not the Pilot/engine like now.....their always get me an PK or Engine Failure, never a ripped wing or something like that

Look at the Guncams, they seem to have no problem to destroy a bomber from behind, even in a larger 110

It would be really cool if it where possibly to create a script, that some of the AI forgot to jettison the fuel tanks when engaged. In some guncams you see 109s that still got the tank under the belly

edit :

Some B17s and B24s attack from behind without problems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkTOfH3ngLU&NR=1

[Metatron]

Don't forget that attacking an enemy bomber shouldn't be a walk in the park, the Italians for example during 1943 and later would fly parallel to the bombers, overtake them and then attack head on and from the sides.
In those clips the rear gunner seems to be killed, the planes seem isolated and damaged.

[Carnagexxx]

I would say attackin a Combat Box of Bombers is not a walk in the park, but single or duoble ones should always be easy prey.....you have no evidence that the rear gunners are killed in the vid, but on the other hand I have no evidence that their are alive :?

But in no book they said that it was this hard to get a B17 like in Il2

I really think that the effective of the B17 was because it fly in large formations, with a lot higher chance to get hit by the dozens of 50s firing at you

But in Il2 the problem is that the AI seems to Aim right between your eyes, its also a problem with every bomber

[AIRdomination]

But in no book they said that it was this hard to get a B17 like in Il2

You sure? B-17's shot down more fighter aircraft than fighters themselves.

[Maxisonfire]

But in no book they said that it was this hard to get a B17 like in Il2

You sure? B-17's shot down more fighter aircraft than fighters themselves.

5 hits with Mk 108 30mm Minengeschoss (but you should be a real sniper to hit a bomber 5 times in the same place with mk 108)

"Tests carried out at Rechlin (where most of the Luftwaffe aircraft and weapons tests were done) showed that with a "M-Shell" with 85 grains of explosive, five hits could destroy a B-17 or B-24 bomber..."

http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html

[Charlie Chap]

the quote that sticks in my mind from one of the more notable Western Front LW 'experten' was that attacking a bomber box was :-

A form of controlled suicide....

I think gunner accuracy is pretty good as is actually, it depends a lot on how you attack the bombers,


The number of hits you need and how difficult it is to down a B17 is completely unrelated to AI bahaviour or this mod. This mod effects how the AI fly aircraft only and of course gunner accuracy.
It is related instead to Olegs Weapons and Damage model....altering this is of course taboo.

[mmaruda]

It really is hard to send the B-17 down in this game, but I think the problem lies not in their damage resistance. What I've noticed is that shooting engines doesn't cut it, however if you shoot the wing a bit from the engine, a very short burst is enough to set the bomber on fire. Strangely enough, the fire comes not from the engine itself (you can shoot it all you want it won't burn), but from the wing. It's as if the game thought the engine is located not in the place it is displayed, it doesn't happen with Betties for example.

Another issue is killing gunners. It makes life a lot easier to dispose of the tail gunner, but the bastard seems bulletproof. Someone actually told me that this is something like a random event and you usually don't kill gunner's no matter how many rounds you shoot at their ugly faces.

[fractional]

Well, I have an observation about jabos under attack (yet again).

Stalingrad campaign from the fighter south LW career (stock DGEN career)

My flight of 4 109Fs got on the tail of 3x I-153 M62s (unescorted) with bombs. 2 of the I-15s were shot down with their bombs attached. But the other jettisoned *after* it had been shot at and hit (but not hit bad enough to be shot down). And it gave a pretty god account of itself after jettisoning.

So the Jabos do jettison at times, but IMHO, they need to jettison (a lot) more often. Just a suggestion, it's your mod after all.

S.

[Carnagexxx]

Also me has no problem with the DM of US Bombers, seems to fit very well what I