[Snail]

Hey guys, do you want to attack bombers from behind? Turn off their ammo!!! 8) Attacking bombers was a risky job! Hartman said (watching attack from behind on gum camera): This is the way how to do it, but life can be very short. Are they killing you? That's fine, because something to be changed is not AI gunnery but your behaviour. Use side attacks, high side attacks, head on's. Have anyone read about Carl Marion attacking from behind? No? Well, that was because he didn't do anything so stupid like attacking Betty from behind (20mm cannon). Vertical dive is what he used. Germans used at least 36 planes to engage from behind and suffered significant losses. Why, do you think, did they start head on and Sturmbock? Forget gun cams, the turrents are not moving, so they are dead. I kill 0-2 B-17 in ZEKE. No armour plating and self-sealing tanks. Wanna die? Attack alone from behind. This was considered suicide even in amarican b17 manuals... Maybe AI should target engine, instead of cockpit.

AI in this mod has problems with ground hitting, listening to orders, ghost targets and not fighting jabos. That are the things which need some tweaking, not AI gunnery.

[BomberBoy]

Strangely enough, the fire comes not from the engine itself (you can shoot it all you want it won't burn), but from the wing. It's as if the game thought the engine is located not in the place it is displayed, it doesn't happen with Betties for example.

That's because the fire is coming from the fuel tanks, which are in the wings.

As for 6 o' clock attacks and tail gunners, that's the worst possible angle for a fighter to approach from. While you're setting yourself up for a zero-deflection shot, you're also setting the tail gunner up for one as well. Not a good idea! Learn deflection shooting (it's much easier for a fighter than for a bomber gunner who has to take several additional factors such as relative motion into mind for his firing solution) and make beam or vertical attacks. The reason combat boxes work is because while a fighter's jockeying into position for a beam or vertical attack, he's also setting himself up in the sights of another bomber or two. Mutual protection is what it's all about.

[fractional]

As for 6 o' clock attacks and tail gunners, that's the worst possible angle for a fighter to approach from. While you're setting yourself up for a zero-deflection shot, you're also setting the tail gunner up for one as well. Not a good idea! Learn deflection shooting (it's much easier for a fighter than for a bomber gunner who has to take several additional factors such as relative motion into mind for his firing solution) and make beam or vertical attacks. The reason combat boxes work is because while a fighter's jockeying into position for a beam or vertical attack, he's also setting himself up in the sights of another bomber or two. Mutual protection is what it's all about.

Can't agree more. Bomber gunner accuracy is ok IMHO. In fact I shot down a few B-17 and B-24 (in a flight of three) in a Bf109K14 from high 6 passes. And in the RV campaign I flew straight threw the bomber box once or twice with getting shot down. So if anything, bomber gunner effectiveness may be a bit lower than what it should be.

AI fighter shooting accuracy is also less than what it should be. I will give an example. I am turning in my109F4 with a Rata or an Yak on my tail. The enemy fires a couple of bursts just missing my tail, and then breaks off or lessons his rate of turn, allowing me to extend, turn into him and start a scissors, (or disengage). This has happened more times than I'd have liked to observe. But then, I do think this is a characteristic of the vanilla AI itself.

AI in this mod has problems with ground hitting, listening to orders, ghost targets and not fighting jabos. That are the things which need some tweaking, not AI gunnery.

I am not sure if the vanilla AI listened to orders more than the AI in v 0.17. And I'd also add to your list of corrections the AI tendency to use the vertical almost every time. But otherwise, yes, these are the things I, personally would like to see fixed.

S.

[idonno]

Good stuff certificate.

Any chance of being able to make AI gunners stop firing in every direction but where the enemy actually is?

~S~

[Snail]

About the bombers... Well, I used massed bombers option in DCG, engaged 15 Betty bombers downed 2 of them. I made many passes trough the formation and was hit once. Unfortunately, it was 20mm shell, which smoked my engine and I barely made it back to the base. Point here - bomber accuracy is OK IMHO, but the 3rd bomber was shot down by own planes... I agree with previous post, AI should take friendly planes in consideration. In the very same mission a flight of zeke's killed 6 B-25 without a loss of plane... About fighters... Well, this is another story. However, I haven't seen a post by Certificate for some time, so maybe our disscusion is a bit pointless... Anyway, ace should be able to do 90 degees deflection shot from time to time. Veteran, say 30-45 degrees, average 20 degrees, rookie should have the problem with say 5 degrees... Just suggestion, nothing more. I do not know if it can be done. Maybe Certificate could make us clear about what is or isn't possible.

About not listening to orders - my flight passed over enemy airfield, where enemy had one zeke which had landed. N.3 broke and tried to attack the plane. When I issued the order to rejoin, it continued (and got shot down in flames). In vanilla "rejoin" was final order and it should remain so. However, N.3 had the same rank as me, so this may be this thing, I will run a few "test" with different crew in my campaign.

[mmaruda]

I finally tested this mod and it's just great!

Don't know about friendly AI, but the enemy finally behaves like they were flying planes and not TIE Fighters. The scissors are really fun to try and keep up, none of that roll and separate to my six BS.

All in all this mods seems to have potential to make this game actually really fun in SP. Great job! Thanx!

[rollnloop]

About not listening to orders - my flight passed over enemy airfield, where enemy had one zeke which had landed. N.3 broke and tried to attack the plane. When I issued the order to rejoin, it continued (and got shot down in flames). In vanilla "rejoin" was final order and it should remain so. However, N.3 had the same rank as me, so this may be this thing, I will run a few "test" with different crew in my campaign.

Usual procedure wich works is "break", and only then "rejoin". Works most of the time, with both stock and modded AI, in my experience.

[Snail]

I used both ways, break-rejoin, rejoin. In that case neither worked. 8) N.3 just wanted to die... :lol:

[dday8789]

i think both of the AI types are right because i have .17 but i can kill an ace with this mod

[Murph]

Has anyone heard from Certificate? He was turning out updates about every day at first, and now he's disappeared.

[making153]

++++++1?

[SkyHigh]

Hope things are ok with you Certificate.

[walter_solito]

Hi!

Dear certificate are you still between us???

cheers

walter

[TH0R]

Has anyone heard from Certificate? He was turning out updates about every day at first, and now he's disappeared.

Yeah, last I was of him was three weeks ago.

There is a PM waiting for you certificate.


Hope all is well and you honor us with yet another version of your mod.

[ColaBen]

Great Mod, thanks ;@)
ColaBen