[Twister]

And of course you have documented proof that non- war criminals were locked up by Britain and the US.
Werner Von Braun, for example, was never "locked up". He was free to live wherever he chose to, so was Kurt Tank.
What were the names of these "locked up" scientists?
As Carl Sagan liked to say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".

There is nothing extraordinary in such claims for soviet ears. In SU during WWII many soviet scientists and desighners was locked-up just in case, to give them more "stimulating" working environment (Korolёv, russian "VonBraun", for example). But they even not were criminals.
Naturally, when Soviets laid their hands on Reich legacy, they did same thing.
So happens, that most of the German aviation specialists got SU, while rocket scientists got US. In SU, wide participation (if not most part) take place during the designing of Tu-95. After that, many of them were released and returned to Germany. The aircraft still in service today.

[Murph]

Twister, I'm sure you are correct about the USSR. I only mentioned the USA and Great Britain in my post.

[RadPig94]

did you know that in the IL-2 planes that supposedly that they made Convicts the gunner?

Such companies were made up of prisoners who were considered to be "enemies of socialism" or "enemies of the people." The air gunners were not provided with either armour protection, or allegedly, parachutes and were reliant entirely on their machine guns to ensure their own survival. The death rate among the air gunners was exceptionally high. According to Suvorov, prisoners who survived could theoretically clear their sentences after nine missions. The prisoners, however, were always transferred to mine clearing or other units for "medical reasons" before this could happen.

Many Il-2 pilots and rear gunners do not remember seeing or hearing about any prisoner crews, and German propaganda may have broadcast this claim as well. In recent years, documents from the Soviet archives have come to light indicating the Soviet Air Force did in fact use "penal squadrons" in some situations, but although they may have been considered expendable, there is no evidence that they would have been deliberately sacrificed.

[Fireskull]

The conversation is very interesting until now. Let's keep on topic about the [MOD] Ta-183 mechanics & DM, okay?


It's fascinating that aeronautics theory was developing in front of technology. I think that the Ta-183 probably had structural weaknesses typical of a new technology. The DM of a jet which disintegrates more easily than a piston engine fighter seems like the way to go, don't you agree?

[Fireskull]

tater,

That reminds me that the pressure to conserve materials would have increased the risk that the airframe could be under-strengthened.

[Guest]

And materials are never as good as advertized.

Asbestos.

[Fireskull]

When I have watched World War Two combat films-many of them over the years-I never saw an aircraft disintegrate into only tiny pieces. There were always at least some large pieces.

[RadPig94]

When I have watched World War Two combat films-many of them over the years-I never saw an aircraft disintegrate into only tiny pieces. There were always at least some large pieces.

i love watching the films. what about Gas tanks that were hit, how big of explosion were they?

[Fireskull]

When I have watched World War Two combat films-many of them over the years-I never saw an aircraft disintegrate into only tiny pieces. There were always at least some large pieces.

i love watching the films. what about Gas tanks that were hit, how big of explosion were they?

I've seen some big fire balls and flame tails from Drop tanks and Onboard tanks which were hit. There were always big pieces of aircraft remaining after those hits.

Does the Ta-183 allow drop tanks?

[RadPig94]

I've seen some big fire balls and flame tails from Drop tanks and Onboard tanks which were hit. There were always big pieces of aircraft remaining after those hits.

Does the Ta-183 allow drop tanks?

in game? no.

in real life? i think only eXperimental version did, which was called Project VI... as far as i know

[Guest]

I've seen some big fire balls and flame tails from Drop tanks and Onboard tanks which were hit. There were always big pieces of aircraft remaining after those hits.

Does the Ta-183 allow drop tanks?

in game? no.

in real life? i think only eXperimental version did, which was called Project VI... as far as i know

Experimental Version? Am I missing something, I thought only a wind tunnel model was made.

[caldrail]

good mornings folks, the reason why so many similar planes all around the world popped up is, because of germany lost the war and so many designers and mechanics were locked up in secret areas of the United States, United Kingdom and the former Soviet Union, were they had to work on projected planes like the Ta 183 and other secret planes.

That had little to do with it. What we see in this phenomenon is a roughly comparable level of aerodynamic understanding. In other words, the same solutions to problems or means to exploit technical advances were being made seperately. Remember that aircraft design in World War Two (or indeed, any other period before the sixties) was competitive, not co-operative. That said the research conducted by Germany did influence aircraft design in the post-1945 era, but bear in mind that although Germany had made some real advances in scientific thinking, they weren't as far ahead of the allies as is commonly believed.

[Guest]

But they were still ahead.

[Fireskull]

good mornings folks, the reason why so many similar planes all around the world popped up is, because of germany lost the war and so many designers and mechanics were locked up in secret areas of the United States, United Kingdom and the former Soviet Union, were they had to work on projected planes like the Ta 183 and other secret planes.

That had little to do with it. What we see in this phenomenon is a roughly comparable level of aerodynamic understanding. In other words, the same solutions to problems or means to exploit technical advances were being made seperately. Remember that aircraft design in World War Two (or indeed, any other period before the sixties) was competitive, not co-operative. That said the research conducted by Germany did influence aircraft design in the post-1945 era, but bear in mind that although Germany had made some real advances in scientific thinking, they weren't as far ahead of the allies as is commonly believed.

Hi, Caldrail

I have to agree with everything that you wrote here.

Being the nature of the regimes at the time, I would combine three conditions at work:

1) Independent national aircraft development programs arrived at the same general theory conclusions, though at different times-but by the end of World War Two for the most part.

2) There is strong circumstancial evidence for espionage and leaks of advanced programs which contributed to decisions to commit to certain technologies.

3) Luftwaffe development generally affirmed already existing theories in other nations.


Given all these things, it is likely that the technical specifications for the Ta-183 program is sitting in the archives of at least several major world powers and has been so from the middle and late 1940s.

If someone could get at any of this official data, it would help improve the Ta-183 model. That could be a huge task to find it. Did Oleg have access to Russian data on the Ta-183? That seems likely to me.