[George Formby]

Also, I read Bud Anderson's and just finished Chuck Yeager's book, and both of those guys said that P-51's were real buggers to handle while ALL the fuel tanks were full, something about center axis, it was only after draining the main tank that they were easier to handle, in the game it seems like the plane is easy to handle from the get go, even with a full tank. That seems like a flaw in the flight model to me, not bitchin, just a mention...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Why don't you get your facts straight

The fact remains that your post, i.e.

As for Ace there, he does have a problem,

And

so Ace, for the sake of peace, stop being a smart @ss, it's more childish than noble

Break forum rules

before you go trying to be all yoda here ,Mr know-it-all, I have never had a "Vacation" from here or any other forum,

Maybe I have you confused with someone else than..

So allow me to correct my statement

'I would hate to see you get a vacation and or get this thread locked'

Better?

and what I said has just as much validity as any of your trouble starting ramblings,

trouble starting ramblings..

Again I urge you to read the forum rules before posting

Here is a link for you

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=28618

as for me getting it locked, that would fall in your lap.

Hardly

In that I have broken no rules here

Where as you have

Thus your lap

As far as the same plane handling different whether it be new or out of the box,

Correct me if I am wrong

But doesn't 'new' equate to 'out of the box'?

Yet you said 'new OR out of the box'

So not sure just what it is your trying to say here

I have direct experience with the matter, since most of my adult life has been in the US Army, I can personally give input on how much maintenance a plane, Bradley, M-1, M-2 50 cal etc can loosen up parts to make em handle or fire differently.

Hate to burst your bubble here

But that kind of experience does not require one to be in the Army

Anyone who has ever bought a new car has experience in that area

Also note that example has nothing to do with the topic at hand

In that as I already noted IL-2 makes no attempt to model wear and tear

Also note that the test pilots and engineers of WWII were not fools

They too realized that there is a break in period for all machines

At therefore were smart enough to ensure the planes under test met the break in period

Or are you trying to imply they were not aware of that and/or that you are smarter than they were?

You are becoming a pro at tearing up credibility of others posts,

And I think you are a pro at breaking the forum rules

and I think most will agree, you ARE getting carried away with an argument,

Only in that most are Quake types that don't really care about how accurate the flight models are

In that an accurate flight model accurately hinders their high score goals

when this post started as a simple question,

On that note lets take a look at that original question

Revi 01
Does the UP2 have the remodeled P51's? The reason I ask is because after installing UP2 and flying the old P51 I feel like a novice again, or at least as bad as on the obsolescent FM's.

NOTE the RED statement that asks if the UP P-51s have been remolded. In my first post in this thread I addressed that question, thus my post was on topic.

NOTE the GREEN statement that inquires about the obsolescent FMs. In my first post in this thread I addressed that question, thus my post was on topic.

Which is more than I can say for your post wrt the original simple question

there is no need to try and tear down others opinions by posting quotes from the same thread, its childish and a waste of space.

Right back at ya chum

p.s. I know the forum rules, and if you can show me where I broke em then apologies all around,

Already showed you

And apology accepted

but I think I have been on topic,

Disagree 100%

You have yet to address the original simple question

and even on topic to what you are saying, even though its off topic,

Agreed 100%

Your posts are off topic

I have been for the most part fair, friendly and clean, if your speaking of the word @ss I edited it as to not spell the word, if that offends you after ALL the military time you claim, then you must've been in one soft unit, there is a lot worse that can be said.

LOL

So let me see if I understand you correctly

You think you didn't break the forum rules because you replaced the letter 'A' with an '@' when you called me an ass

That really speaks volumes about you IMHO

As for me being soft

Hardly

Just that after being in the military I learned how to abide by the rules

Something you clearly missed out on

Again

Speaks volumes about you and explains a lot about your post

For the last time, I personally have nothing against you, other than your people skills and how you like to try and belittle others by using $2.00 words and $3.00 phrases.

ROTFL

My people skills

This coming from the guy who thinks he has not broken any forum rules because he replaced the letter 'A' with a '@' when he called me an ass

I am quite sure ALL your chart making and FM comparing is truly a help to modders, but just like before, you tend to try and stir up some kind of stink by constantly posting quotes and analyzing them too.

ROTFL

I try and stir up some kind of stick

This coming from the guy who thinks he has not broken any forum rules because he replaced the letter 'A' with a '@' when he called me an ass

You can't play to be right ALL the time,

Just to be clear

I never claimed to be right all the time

But I will say this

You personally have never provided anything to prove anything I ever said was wrong

I hope were all friends here, so there is really no use in getting offended when someone else holds a valid point, and then try and make em look stupid by throwing their own words against them.

Right back act ya chum

Sorry to be so long winded community, I just hate to see all these , I am sure, good guys at each other over a question that could've been answered 15 posts ago

ROTFL

guys at each other

This coming from the guy who thinks he has not broken any forum rules because he replaced the letter 'A' with a '@' when he called me an ass

and has been clouded by an engineer digressing all over the post.

As noted above

You personally have never provided anything to prove anything I ever said was wrong

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Aces. DO NOT make posts without getting your facts straight first.We do not allow publically mocking of any forum members here, and that included reminding them of/or lieing about possible 'vacations'.

No problem

As I noted I must have had him confused with someone else

Thus I corrected my statement

Where it use to say

I would hate to see you get another vacation and or get this thread locked

to..

I would hate to see you get a vacation and or get this thread locked

Continue your discussion...

Wait

Before you go

I noticed you only singled me out here

And had nothing to say with regards to George's posts that IMHO break the forum rules, i.e.

As for Ace there, he does have a problem,

And

so Ace, for the sake of peace, stop being a smart @ss, it's more childish than noble

And

there is no need to try and tear down others opinions by posting quotes from the same thread, its childish and a waste of space

And

if that offends you after ALL the military time you claim, then you must've been in one soft unit

And

and what I said has just as much validity as any of your trouble starting ramblings

Now when I read the forum rules, i.e.

Deutschmark
The forum rules here are simple;
1, keep it friendly.
2, keep it clean.
3, keep it on topic.

I don't see George implying I have some mental problem as being friendly, clean or on topic
I don't see George calling me an ass as being friendly, clean or on topic
I don't see George implying I am childish as being friendly, clean or on topic
I don't see George implying I am lying about my military services, as being friendly, clean or on topic
I don't see George implying that I start trouble and/or ramble, as being friendly, clean or on topic

Now don't get me wrong here

I would love to reply in kind and reply to him in the a manor befitting his Army E4 mind set that will make him stand up and take notice

In that I can light the fires with the best of them

But I have not in that I don't see how those things conform to the forum rules

So in light of the fact that you did not single out George in public for those statements like you did me

Is it safe to assume those words do conform with forum rules?

And that it is ok for me to imply George has mental problems?
And that it is ok for me to imply George is an @ss?
And that it is ok for me to imply George is acting childish?
And that it is ok for me to imply George is lying about his military service?
And that it is ok for me to imply George is starting troulbe and rambling on?

To be honest I hope your answer is yes!

But I think if you stop and take pause you will realize such statements are not ok and that you should have publicly singled out George too

Better yet

IMHO it would have been better for you to take both of these maters to PM

Just a thought

I await your reply

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Ace,that's quite enough out of you. I am about sick and tired of your tactics, your petty sniping, and your inability to express yourself in a civilized and respectfull manner.
Take a look around you,man! Do you think everyone here is an ignorant booger-eating moron? It's that attitude of yours that makes this and almost any other topic you participate in turn into rubbish.
I know I am sick of it but it's the moderators and admins's opinions you should be concerned about. Just keep tap dancing in the minefield, Amigo.

Let me see if I understand you correctly

George can say things like this to me, ie

As for Ace there, he does have a problem,

And

so Ace, for the sake of peace, stop being a smart @ss, it's more childish than noble

And

there is no need to try and tear down others opinions by posting quotes from the same thread, its childish and a waste of space

And

if that offends you after ALL the military time you claim, then you must've been in one soft unit

And

and what I said has just as much validity as any of your trouble starting ramblings

And you say I am the one that is inable to express myself in a civilized and respectfull manner?

Interesting

[WhoDatNotSayin]

What does any of this egotistical garbage have to do with P-51 FMs?

[Python]

Salute

After reading all the posts in this topic everyone has an opinion but remember this is a game no matter how much data you have it will never be realistic no matter how hard you try a pc game will never take the place of the real thing a pc game is just that a pc game so try to remember that when going into these types of discussions. Never let these discussions get personal it does no one any good I like reading the data or opinons some have it is interesting.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Salute

After reading all the posts in this topic everyone has an opinion but remember this is a game no matter how much data you have it will never be realistic no matter how hard you try a pc game will never take the place of the real thing a pc game is just that a pc game so try to remember that when going into these types of discussions. Never let these discussions get personal it does no one any good I like reading the data or opinons some have it is interesting.

Agreed 100%

And as I have said a thousand times over the past 20+ years of simming

No flight sim ever was.. is.. or will be perfect (read real)

But that does not mean we should not strive to make it as real as possible

Especially when it comes to the accuracy of the flight models

Now clearly the Quake types of flight simmers will welcome a Bf109 with a rate of climb that is 30% better than the real 109, in that it only helps them with their high score

But there are others in this game that think a 30% error is too much

As a mater of fact

This FM forum is for the later

While on that note

It is IMHO that the problem with this forum is NOT due to the folks like me who prefer accuracy in their FMs

The problem with this forum is the Quake types that feel the need to come in here and try and belittle the folks like me that do prefer accuracy in their FMs

Thus I would say this to those Quake types

If you don't like topics dedicated to the discussion of the accuracy of FMs

Stay out of them

It is that simple

[WhoDatNotSayin]

If you don't like topics dedicated to the discussion of the accuracy of FMs

Stay out of them

This thread stopped being about the accuracy of FMs a long time ago. :roll:

[George Formby]

Yeah I see this has went from an FM discussion to taking apart and analyzing what other members say. It truly is people like you ace, that destroy the legitimacy of a post, as for you speaking down to me, keep it up, it only goes to show how insecure you really are. And for the record, there are NO apologies coming from me to you.

[Guest]

Aces, I singled you out because you were the only one who made a snide comment against a forum member. That is not on. I can't say you made an effort to apologise; if anyone were to get a vacation it'd be you.

But anyway, stop trying to justify every-single thing you say in posts that are so long, no-one can really be arsed to read them. I speak on behalf of most of the forum. When AAA was reaching it's last-legs and AAS was due to start, I got messages from forum members asking that we urge you to stop these long-winded topics because they were only serving to upset the community, No one wants to read posts that long, and no-one wants to make a statement that they stand-by, only for you to pick it apart. No one really cares what you think regarding FM's, and your points-of-view are not going to have any effect. that said, I am glad that this section is here, 'cos at least it keeps this crap away from the rest of the stuff. DM has gone out to practically give you your own section to have these discussions, but that does not exempt you from any of the forum rules; we do not tolerate insults against forum members unless they are truly justified. That will be all. I didn't single you out in a personal way, but I can't stand comments made against users which aren't true. Sorry to intrude on your absolutely fascinating discussion here gents.


And Aces; as a moderator I will say this. Stop quoting so much in each topic and keep your sentences the full length and paragraphed correctly. If I see another post with more quotes than ribs showing on an anoerexic I will delete the post.

[Storebror]

Yeah I see this has went from an FM discussion to taking apart and analyzing what other members say.

That's unfortunately true.

It truly is people like you ace (...snipp!...)

I'm sick of it.

Back to topic: I'm not that kind of daily Pony Jockey, I'm a P-47 guy. Thanks to this thread I took a few dozen test rides on a D-25NA today and I must say that I personally like the HSFX FM more than the UP one.
Furthermore I did follow the discussions at UP and AAA, read the bunch of graphs and "RL" data comparisons and that far I tend to agree to Ace regarding the better realism factor of the HSFX FM.

However, that's just my opinion, not a written law.

Best regards - Mike

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Yeah I see this has went from an FM discussion to taking apart and analyzing what other members say.

Again just part of being a engineer

Attention to detail and thoroughness is what I do

Which by the way is NOT against forum rules

Where as

It truly is people like you ace, that destroy the legitimacy of a post, as for you speaking down to me, keep it up, it only goes to show how insecure you really are.

ROTFL

This coming from the guy who thinks he has not broken any forum rules because he replaced the letter 'A' with a '@' when he called me an ass

And for the record, there are NO apologies coming from me to you.

Too late

You already did apologize and I already accepted

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Aces, I singled you out because you were the only one who made a snide comment against a forum member. That is not on. I can't say you made an effort to apologise; if anyone were to get a vacation it'd be you.

But anyway, stop trying to justify every-single thing you say in posts that are so long, no-one can really be arsed to read them. I speak on behalf of most of the forum. When AAA was reaching it's last-legs and AAS was due to start, I got messages from forum members asking that we urge you to stop these long-winded topics because they were only serving to upset the community, No one wants to read posts that long, and no-one wants to make a statement that they stand-by, only for you to pick it apart. No one really cares what you think regarding FM's, and your points-of-view are not going to have any effect. that said, I am glad that this section is here, 'cos at least it keeps this crap away from the rest of the stuff. DM has gone out to practically give you your own section to have these discussions, but that does not exempt you from any of the forum rules; we do not tolerate insults against forum members unless they are truly justified. That will be all. I didn't single you out in a personal way, but I can't stand comments made against users which aren't true. Sorry to intrude on your absolutely fascinating discussion here gents.


And Aces; as a moderator I will say this. Stop quoting so much in each topic and keep your sentences the full length and paragraphed correctly. If I see another post with more quotes than ribs showing on an anoerexic I will delete the post.

So it is ok for me to imply George has mental problems?
So it is ok for me to imply George is an @ss?
So it is ok for me to imply George is acting childish?
So it is ok for me to imply George is lying about his military service?
So it is ok for me to imply George is starting troulbe and rambling on?

Ok got it thanks for clearing that up!

[Python]

Salute

I have a question why is one of the forum moderators only warning Aces and not others I can see nowhere that Aces broke the rules of this forum as were others have it seems a little one side I believe the idea of having a forum moderiator is that he is to be neutral and not take sides

[Guest]

Aces is causing people to get angry. I symphasize with them, frankyly.

That said, please keep this civil people; I'm talking to you all.

Also, Aces, stop taking everything people say as the absolute truth. If I talk to you i am talking to you, I'm not talking to George or anyone else.