[Bobsqueek]

No, I meant that the B-17G had alot more lasting power than the Lancaster. It could fly higher, take more damage, and out-shoot the Lancaster. I honestly love both, but I would take up the B-17G over the Lancaster for any day run and the Lanc over the Fort for any night raid. The Lanc could go deeper into Germany and drop more bombs on it than the Fort. Overall, if I had to take one into combat alone without escort, I'd take the Fort simply because I'd be more likely to get home. Don't give me any of that you're just for America crap either... If I thought the Lanc was all-around bomber, then I would say so, but I don't.

And I'd agree with you up to the point of "take more damage" as it's hard to quantify accurately as there's probably record of both aircraft sustaining massive amounts of damage and returning home, and on the other hand aircraft going down after taking one bullet. I'm not trying to be overly argumentative, just saying that it's quite a bold statement that's hard to quantify. Both the B-17G and the Lancaster were optimised for their respecitve theatres of operations, yes, so if I had to make the same choice I'd probably choose the same, although I wouldn't rate my chances either way. I believe the loss rates were comparable.

And i'm sorry if you think i'm "giving you that you're just for america crap" as I said in my original post that's not my intention. You seem to have missed the point of my post. Some thing I'll pick up on later.

Oh yeah, you want to hear a little bit about the RAF night ops. Look at the Defiant... It couldn't hack it during the day so it was relegated to night. Planes that didn't do well under heavy fire went up during the dark. This is something of a religious debate, but that's the way I see things. The bomber that can carry the bombs to the target and bring back it's crew after getting blown to hell is alot better than one that goes farther and carries more bombs but is less likely to make it home.

I'm aware of the Defiant and you make a valid point. There were many aircraft that when found to be obsolete were relegated to night duties, some, like the Defiant did rather well in their new found role. The Defiant is the poster-child for all the "bomber-killing" dead-ends of the inter war years such as the Grigorovch I-Z and Bell Airacuda. As an aside, when the turret was taken off, it was found to handle rather well and have a comparable top speed to the spitfire Mk1. I believe there were investigations and mutterings about turning it into a fast ground attack aircraft but it came to nothing as the typhoon has just entered service.


But anyway, that's going even further off-topic. What I want to clarify is the point of my original post because I think it's been missed. The idea that I was challenging was:

Why on earth do you think the Lanc's were relegated to night bombing opps? They couldn't hold their own during the day against fighters. The Fortresses and Liberators could... That's why the Americans took up the day runs.

What I was trying to say was, it wasn't "relegated" to night duties, it was designed with them in mind because that was RAF strategic bombing doctrine established 2 years before the Lancaster was introduced. Whether it could hold it's own during the day or not will never be known as the lancaster wasn't used during the day until the end of the war. The USAAF took up day bombing because that was their doctrine. While I fully agree with you that USAAF bombers may have been better suited to daylight ops, they could in no way "hold their own". The horrific loss rate backs that up. By the time it had become apparent that daylight bombing was proving costly it was too late to really do anything about it. The tempo of bombing had to be maintained to make sure their targets stayed destroyed.

To repeat the point of my first post. It wasn't about the B-17 bombing during the day because the B-17 was a 'better' aircraft, the B-17/B-24 and Lancaster/Halifax bombed when they did because that was how it was decided they would bomb before they entered the war. Once the allies had started down this route it was almost impossible to stop because if they did the factories would be repaired, the luftwaffe would regroup and they'd have to start from scratch all over again.
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