[FA_Cheech]

Looks a little better, but we still see some of the carpet lines. Also it kind of looks weird to have pine trees all over the Slot.

As for rivers, you can only add those through map_c, and if Oleg's Guadalcanal isnt too far off in terms of rivers, I can use his and put them on my map. What's the genera opinion on this?

LOL, no easy solution, eh Skunk? Since I started using the map building tool to assist you on this project, I definitely have an appreciation for what it takes to build one of these maps, and how difficult it is to work arround the limitations of the sim's graphics engine :roll:

I think the type of "Wood texture" that gets used for the jungles is an easy thing to modify in the load.ini, so when the map is finally released there will be many variations, all based on the "eye of the beholder". I just brought it up to see if there might be some better options. It's your map Skunk, so just let me know what to use for now and I will go with that.

As for the rivers, when I get home from work this afternoon I will compare Oleg's Guadalcanal rivers to the satellite photos and give you my humble opinion, for whatever it's worth. I think the real issue is how much work is involved with changing the map_c?

I think everyone here is thrilled with what you have done with The_Slot, and all the discussion about rivers, and jungle textures is meant to be helpful (there is so much to be learned about how to build maps)...I just want to be sure I help you with the workload, not add to it :?

Are you available to meet tonight on TS?

[Nocturnum]

I'd go for either of Bee's textures, too. No way to avoid repetitive tiling on expanses the size this map has but I like the colours of the two shots he posted more than the very vivd green. It's in your hands though Skunk - you've done virtually all the work so far so you should get to call the shots.

[Skunkmeister]

Yeah, but I'm not building this map for gratitude or acknowledgement or fame, I'm building it for you guys, who have SCREAMED to have this map ever since PF was released. So I may be calling the shots, but all your input is considered, be sure.

Motivations for doing this were that I have ideas for many different maps, even though I consider myself a Typhoon/Tempest pilot in this sim, I do like the pacific theater, my first love of combat sims was CFS2. I was marvelled at what PF could do when I first bought it, but was so disappointed in content that I had to find FB and AEP to merge with it in order to get a good gaming experience.

Its in my nature to take things apart and learn how they work (hey, I am an aircraft mechanic after all...) and as soon as I figured out how this map making stuff worked, I dove right into it. Personnally, I find this map making business to be one of the more useful things that modding has to offer. A screwy lookin' FrankenTyphoon, I'll never fly that, but a Slot, Leyte Gulf or Aleutians map? That I will want in my game.

Now, for the rivers of Guadalcanal, if Oleg's rivers arent too off, I'll just splice in "his" Guadalcanal over mine, and it'll be a done deal.

[duffys tavern]

To Skunk & all the guys working so hard on this wonderful map, all of us would have accepted anything you gave us but the fact that you guys work so hard to produce the best is very encouraging. The more missions I fly the more I like it. To think we've waited all these years and yet you've achieved so much in such a short time. Keep it up, it's much appreciated. One observation: I noticed that when AI planes land, they disappear almost immediately rather than taxing to park. Small problem that can be fixed later I'm sure.

[spud]

The problem with Oleg's rivers is that they are huge, navigable rivers. The rivers in question are frequently better described as "creeks."

The image above shows a meandering stream in a wide riverbed.

Bridge over Tenaru "river:"



Wide bit in same river:



The landing at Guadalcanal:




Matanikau looks wider now than during the war, doesn't it?




Cool site:
http://www.guadalcanal.homestead.com/gallery.html



Lunga River Delta (widest point in river (1944 image)):

[Skunkmeister]

The minimum size for a river is going to be 50 meters across, since map_c handles things at 1pixel = 50 meters.

So maybe I can use Oleg's rivers a starting point, but try to make them as thin as possible. I'll give it a try later on today and post the results if I can.

[Low_Flyer]

Following this thread with great interest and anticipation. Cheers to all concerned, LF.

[Skunkmeister]

One observation: I noticed that when AI planes land, they disappear almost immediately rather than taxing to park.

Thats related to AI behaviour, and is not programmed into a map. All the bases I have put in all have parking points for AI, so no matter where they land they should clear the runway. But as far as determining how long they stay before they disappear, I cant control that, sorry.

[fabianfred]

during my messing around with the Midway map....I discovered that the AI are VERY fickle when it comes to taxiing.... messing around with the taxiing and parking waypoints.....everything looks to be correct....but then the AI come along and refuse to use them and just disappear

...even when there are empty slots....if a parking point is too close to trees or other objects they will refuse to use it

but this aspect is something I am getting quite good at.... and can be altered on a finished map quite easily.......time consuming to test each point on an airfield...but not hard

I am happy to do that kind of 'cleaning up' for you when it is almost complete

[6S.Maraz]

One observation: I noticed that when AI planes land, they disappear almost immediately rather than taxing to park.

Thats related to AI behaviour, and is not programmed into a map. All the bases I have put in all have parking points for AI, so no matter where they land they should clear the runway. But as far as determining how long they stay before they disappear, I cant control that, sorry.

mmm... I had this problem with the Malta Map, and sometimes the aircraft did disappear just in the runway, before reaching the parking area. Usually this meant that something was wrong in the taxi and stay points. In some cases there was no evident error, but changing something in the parking areas and taxi/stay points I managed the AI aircraft to taxi and park. Still there are some parking areas that are completely ignored, no AI aircraft goes to park there.

There must be some constraint on stay points (maybe they cannot be too close among them or too close to an existing object) so that existing stay points are ignored, so the aircraft cannot find it's way to any parking area and it disappears while still in the runway.

I believe this can be also related to the complexity of the taxiways, if they are too many, maybe the algorithm for the AI aircraft to find it's way to the parking area just fails, because the routes to choose among are too many or too complex.

Maybe you could try making simpler taxiways and fewer sty points, more distant among themselves, this might help (or might not )

Maraz

[Skunkmeister]

Well in that case, duffy can you note which airfields the AI does this at? I'll take a look see and run a few tests myself.

[spud]

IMHO, no rivers is better than them being too big, with rare exceptions.

A few important ones as landmarks are fine, but I think the il-2 PF rivers on the pacific maps are all horrible. Not bad, horrible. Better none at all than what the NG map looks like, for example.

[Guest]

Some screens with Bee’s combination.

[spud]

AI parkign behavior is very much constrained by where the nearest objects are as fabian said. The current Munda has the planes taxi well, but decorate the area they park in even a little and they disappear on the runway instead. Takes a ton of testing to make it work with objects close.

[asheshouse]

The minimum size for a river is going to be 50 meters across, since map_c handles things at 1pixel = 50 meters.

So maybe I can use Oleg's rivers a starting point, but try to make them as thin as possible. I'll give it a try later on today and post the results if I can.

The smallest I was able to make rivers was 3 pixel using a paintbrush tool in Photoshop Elements.
Attempts at 1 pixel size created broken river courses.