[spud]

No, just thinking out loud. Ideally a road and no hole in trees at all, or even no road, lol.

[Scharnhorst1943]

No, just thinking out loud. Ideally a road and no hole in trees at all, or even no road, lol.

do me a favor. Make a mission on your new map, and make some tank waypts to drive around the forrest, always being under tree canopy. Pick any plane you want, but make a ground attack mission to destroy these tanks, and start at your airfield or far enough away to let the tanks wander. Now fly several missions and attempt to destroy these tanks under the tree canopy and come back to me and tell me how necessary it is to put in a simple road network.

I am dead serious. Try it and tell me how fun it will be to always get missions that you can never complete, or always have your dynamic campaign come out the same way because the tanks are invincible to air attack.

[fabianfred]

well...I never use DCG....I only fly third party campaigns/single/co-op missions ..or my own

I hardly ever bother with the campaigns which come with the game either...what are they?? Dgen..?

lets have the most accurate map first...then start messing with it to use for other things

[fly_zo]

... there is room for as much versions as one likes .... historical ... dcg ready .... you name it ....


after original has been made ... it's not a big deal to plot some roads and get DCG version ready ... no need for Team pacific to waste their time on that ....

... i'm playing only DCG campaigns for almost a year now .... scripted ones are too predictable to me ( or need tuning ... squads / wrong plane) after seven years of playing , but that's just me


~S~

Z

[panzerkeil]

The pacific war was not a tank war. Nor were their many large convoys on land being attacked (exept maybe in Burma) from the air. The air-to-ground war in the Pacific was all about shipping and strongpoints (the Japanese dug in).
Putting in non-historical roads to play a non historical auto-generated campaign would be a waste in my opinion.. 8)

[stansdds]

I'm going to agree with Panzerkeil, there were very, very few tanks used in the Solomon Islands. For fliers it was a war about bombing air bases, strong holds, and ships; truck convoys and tanks simply were not there.

[VFS-214_Hawk]

Roads? We don't need no stinking roads! :twisted:

Oh yea! I got yer' roads right over here. I got 'em right next to my knuckle sandwich, see Rocky? Mea, see? Mea, Mea.

edit: Uh hock: I was kidding ... :?: sorry?

hehehehehe

[VFS-214_Hawk]

I'm going to agree with Panzerkeil, there were very, very few tanks used in the Solomon Islands. For fliers it was a war about bombing air bases, strong holds, and ships; truck convoys and tanks simply were not there.

Yes, I agree here as well.

[FA_Cheech]

~S~ All,
I got up early, just to address roads on The Slot.

I understand that roads are essential to the conduct of DCG campaigns, and how they work, but the simple fact is:

The Pacific War was not a tank war. Nor were their many large convoys on land being attacked (except maybe in Burma) from the air. The air-to-ground war in the Pacific was all about shipping and strong points (the Japanese dug in). Putting in non-historical roads to play a non historical auto-generated campaign would be a waste in my opinion.. 8)

Could not have said it better myself, if I had tried.

The mods have broken new ground when it comes to accuracy standards for maps, so I think some new ground needs to be broken with how DCG handles the ground war for Pacific campaigns. Changing The Slot to conform to current DCG requirements is definitely a case of "the tail wagging the dog".

As for "different strokes, for different folks", the best solution is:

... there is room for as much versions as one likes .... historical ... dcg ready .... you name it ....

after original has been made ... it's not a big deal to plot some roads and get DCG version ready ... no need for Team pacific to waste their time on that ...

Z

I agree with three quarters of this statement, the only exception being that adding roads instead of changing the DCG system to support realistic Pacific scenarios is a sub-optimal solution.

I predict there will be at least five to ten modded versions of The Slot released by the community, within one month of The Pacific Team's release at the end of March. There will be dogfight versions, many different versions of jungle, etc., etc., etc.

Oh, one last thing...to my knowledge, no one on The Pacific Team said anything, anywhere, about the Japanese ALWAYS having to airstart. Four of the five versions of the map to be released by The Pacific Team have all historical airfields represented. The only exception is The Slot_44 version, which will not include any objects or airfields in the Russells, Guadalcanal, or the Florida Is., in an effort to avoid memory issues with the Map Editor version of the FMB. This is a small concession, as these areas had become rear echelon by the time the ANZAC campaign on Bougainville began, and would be of limited interest to players.

If Japanese players on the The Slot_42E map want to fly from Buka and Bougainville to Guadalcanal, there is no problem doing that. The Slot_42, and Slot 43E maps have Munda included for the Japanese player to use, so the ability to fly missions against Guadalcanal from this airstrip is not an issue. The Slot 43L and The Slot 44 versions all have Japanese airfields in close proximity to the American bases at Segi, Barakoma, Ondonga, and Munda, so no issues there.

[FC]

I don't see any reason for DCG not to work properly on Slot map, there are DCG campaigns for Pacific without any ground units ( Coral Sea for example).

FC

[spud]

Yeah, there were 10 IJA tanks at guadalcanal, and some were not serviceable.

Ten tanks, for the entire campaign.

Not sure how many were on Bougainville, but when I counted wrecks a whileback (listed on pacific wrecks) it was a similarly small number. On Bouganville there could have been perhaps as many as 2 dozen tanks. Other islands? None, or 1-2 per island, maybe.

Given the poor way il-2 handles ground attack, 30 tanks is what, 6 sorties?

Airfield destruction, enemy plane/pilot loss, and shipping is how you measure success in the Solomons.

[Dixiecapt]

1st Edit: OOooo I was replying to Page 68, I missed Page 69 so all of this might be MOOT

2nd Edit: YEah all of this is moot that I've posted. Sorry about that, HOWEVER, I am going to send a mail to Low (the maker of the DCG), and let him come check out this topic, and see if he can indeed warp the DCG to better fit the slot. Maybe he can make the Warships front movers, I dunno! One of the reasons I really like the DCG also is it gives you squadron records, such as dates of your missions, what happened, your kills, your squadron supplies, and so on, its much better than the Red star and no info you get with Static Missions made my Mission Builders, I wish IL2 could be changed in that aspect and all our built missions be stat tracked like the Dgen and DCG. anyways, Onwards!

Moot

Ships as front movers, That would work!

And would only be needed on big islands like Boganville, and Guadalcanal. I mean if the island is only big enough to play football on then... yeah no point in it.

As said up there some where, something like the Kakoda Track would be cool, Faint nastly little trails, dirty and muddy, that have been cut into the tree canopy!

Even if not the whole way, I mean if there is say a five mile road that breaks in and out of the trees then that is atleast something... I can circle and find my targets....

OR even Coastal roads, at least with a sandy white roads going around the beach you wouldn't need to worry about trees.

again as everyone had said these are just little ideas, and if Pacific Team decides its too much work i totaly understand!!! And are still Thrilled by these maps!!!!!

[spud]

No, just thinking out loud. Ideally a road and no hole in trees at all, or even no road, lol.

do me a favor. Make a mission on your new map, and make some tank waypts to drive around the forrest, always being under tree canopy. Pick any plane you want, but make a ground attack mission to destroy these tanks, and start at your airfield or far enough away to let the tanks wander. Now fly several missions and attempt to destroy these tanks under the tree canopy and come back to me and tell me how necessary it is to put in a simple road network.

I am dead serious. Try it and tell me how fun it will be to always get missions that you can never complete, or always have your dynamic campaign come out the same way because the tanks are invincible to air attack.

There are open areas on the Slot map. Villages, important clearings (many are kunai grass covered hills), etc.

If the handful of tanks were moving from one village to another along the coast (no roads) sometimes in the jungle (layered forest) sometimes visible, and you flew there and they could not be attacked because they were in the trees... tough. Drop bombs on secondary targets, better luck next time. You'd not have seen them in RL, either.

In general, the vatious important points in the SWPA were not connected with roads. The Kokoda track was a footpath. There should be no tanks on it at all, certainly not in the middle, maybe near the coasts. There were airfields along the NG coast, and they were completely unconnected by roads. The 5th AF supplied fields by air. Can planes like C-47s be treated as "trucks" from a supply standpoint in something like DCG?



Seems like it requires a slightly different take on they dynamic campaign is all. The map itself is built of "ideas outside the box," perhaps we need to do the same with dynamic campaigns.

tater

[FA_Cheech]

Good inputs all...Dixie, I would love to have Paul come look at this thread. Great idea...DCG is one of the best applications ever built for this sim, so I'm sure he will hard at work-arounds 8)

[Former_Older]

OK...getting very anxious...I just got my copy of "History of Marine Corps Aviation in WWII" in the mail, and I'm getting about ready to study it to make some sort of campaign

Interesting thing...signed by the author and inscribed to his friend, Graves Erskine. Well, Erskine was the guy who led the 3rd Marines at Iwo Jima:

"To my friend General Graves B Erskine in memory of many a good encounter- even at Iwo- in World War II

Bob Sherrod
23May1970"

Thought y'all could get a kick out of that. That's my recently purchased 1919 Springfield Armory M1905 16" bayonet holding the book open, too