[chas1963]

Hi cert!, i just was thinking about somethin last night, i was playing a mission with 2 fighter flights, and i was wondering if you can change the way that fighters form up when are differents flight, what i say is if you can make fighters form up like bomber do in a onw flight and not like it's now that you have the second flight lottering over you like it they are scorting bomber.

Just an idea, you are the master here so you only know if this is possible.

thx

Potenz

Hi Potenz Are you saying that you would like to see changes in formayion flying like from echelon left or echelon right to line abreast or line astern? Or do you mean that you wpold like the fighters to escort fighters like they do bombers, rotating above you as you fly?

On this subject is there a way to get a different formation from the AI rather than always echelon left?

no what i mean is that now the fighters rotate over fighter like scorting bombers, and if this behave can be changed to secoond flight follows the first as bombers do.

Potenz

I'm still not totally clear here Potenz. You want the fighters to form up into one big wing, instead of acting like they're escorting each other?

I'm really not too sure about this, I'll definitely look into it.

(I'm sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong probably_lol) Maybe he means the 4th wing in the QMB?

I'm not sure this is an AI issue, but I thought it would be handy if you could start a mission (any kind QM, campaigns, dynamic, anything) in any of the various formation's. Right now, when flying a "QM", you have to order your AI into a new formation after the (spawn) start (using the TAB AI commands)... It would be great if QM would spawn in different formations, AND in campaign & dynamic campaigns they would automatically form-up into the historically correct formation for their aeroplane type and mission...

thanks for listening...

[RRuger]

no what i mean is that now the fighters rotate over fighter like scorting bombers, and if this behave can be changed to secoond flight follows the first as bombers do.

Potenz

Ok I get it, they're escorting you like they ecsort the bombers. Wht are you seeing that? I have missions where I have several fighter groups and all fly in formation and follow all the waypoints to the fight, I'm confused as to why you're having this happen :?:

[Klemm]

Ok I get it, they're escorting you like they ecsort the bombers. Wht are you seeing that? I have missions where I have several fighter groups and all fly in formation and follow all the waypoints to the fight, I'm confused as to why you're having this happen :?:

He means that fighters will escort fighter-bombers like bombers. I.E. 190 A-8's will escort 190 A-8's with bombs on them like they were bombers, when set to escort them.
But fighters should escort other fighters differently than bombers. So they don't circle above the fighter-bombers, but rather fly a bit higher without circling and just generally along the same path.

[vampire_pilot]

maybe the mission that shows this has one flight of fighter protecting the other set as mission target? check in FMB and remove it if there and see if this behaviour is still visisble.

[RRuger]

Ok I get it, they're escorting you like they ecsort the bombers. Wht are you seeing that? I have missions where I have several fighter groups and all fly in formation and follow all the waypoints to the fight, I'm confused as to why you're having this happen :?:

He means that fighters will escort fighter-bombers like bombers. I.E. 190 A-8's will escort 190 A-8's with bombs on them like they were bombers, when set to escort them.
But fighters should escort other fighters differently than bombers. So they don't circle above the fighter-bombers, but rather fly a bit higher without circling and just generally along the same path.

rgr that, I said I got it another way to maybe fix it is in the order of flight. If you make your flight the second or third squad and the fighters first in the mission this might solve the problem...

[Xoddam]

It may be just a perception, but it seems that the AI are sooooooo fast. They do not bleed E, and their zoom climb is out of this world.

I do not have this problem any more since using certificate's mod, even vs ace AI (as long as we have aircraft close in performance, like 109E4 vs SpitMkI, 109G/AS vs Yak3 for example).

xoddam, i guess you'll keep certificate busy for two years with such an exhaustive list :twisted:

I know, but the original list was even longer...

[Graf]

certificate,

First off...congrats mate! Many have been waiting for such a mod.

I have a request. Do you think its possible to have fighters of individual schwarm group together in formation as bombers do when you set the target for the following schwarm as the lead schwarm?

Ex: Player is leader of Flight 1(at most 4 a/c). In the FMB you set all waypoints for this flight as you normally would. If you have a second flight of fighters normally you would also have to set their waypoints as well. Now the player has control of this flight but they will not get in formation with your flight--making your flight a size of perhaps eight a/c instead of four.

With bombers you can set the second flight's target as the first flight and they will group together with the first flight in formation---making a group of eight aircraft. As long as you have the first flight's waypoints set, all flights that have it as their targets will follow that #1 flight wherever it goes.

Is this possible to do for fighters? So that we can take up to sixteen fighters into combat as was how it really was normally.

Oops...see this has already been requested.

[Plantoid 1]

certificate:

Great mods so far.

I have one request though: the landing light(s) is/are coming on during final, as you intended, but they're coming on during daylight. I'm not absolutely positive, but I think this is for civil aviation only. Can this be deleted?

Great days all.

[Potenz]

Hi cert!, i just was thinking about somethin last night, i was playing a mission with 2 fighter flights, and i was wondering if you can change the way that fighters form up when are differents flight, what i say is if you can make fighters form up like bomber do in a onw flight and not like it's now that you have the second flight lottering over you like it they are scorting bomber.

Just an idea, you are the master here so you only know if this is possible.

thx

Potenz

Hi Potenz Are you saying that you would like to see changes in formayion flying like from echelon left or echelon right to line abreast or line astern? Or do you mean that you wpold like the fighters to escort fighters like they do bombers, rotating above you as you fly?

On this subject is there a way to get a different formation from the AI rather than always echelon left?

no what i mean is that now the fighters rotate over fighter like scorting bombers, and if this behave can be changed to secoond flight follows the first as bombers do.

Potenz

I'm still not totally clear here Potenz. You want the fighters to form up into one big wing, instead of acting like they're escorting each other?

I'm really not too sure about this, I'll definitely look into it.

Yes cert that is.

thx

Potenz

[CKY_86]

I havn't yet tried this mod out (computer away being repaired) but have been following this thread closely and by all the things being said, this looks to be one hell of a mod an I cannot wait to try it out. Thank you to all your hard work on this certificate for making what must truly be a must-have mod.

Just wondering here, could flight sizes be edited or new one's added, is this a possibility?

[chris455]

I just played P-40B vs Ki27otsu ace, just to check. There is no jato nor max speed problem. Of course it's far from obvious when you're boresighted by the little fellow, but once he's at the right place (ie in front of your gun, fleeing), there is no way he can escape, he's caught in 10 to 20 secs, and since it has no imagination, he's dead.

if you want to check use the (spoiler) usual trick vs AI:



1/get to the deck, then turn, AI (even modded in 1.7) can't aim good enough when you turn

2/keep turning, until the AI overshoots (it always overshoots at one moment or the other)

3/once it has overshot, you're in scissors. Win the scissors (quite easy, but be careful not to get into its gunsight, or you may loose)

4/when you win the scissors, AI will extend. Catch it, fire with accuracy from medium range, it's dead. Then you'll see it has no rocket power, at least with 1.7 (but in fact it worked with stock, was just a bit longer to catch)

BTW it would be nice if this trick wouldn't work systematically, in a future version. An AI ace KI27 should be able to force a draw, just by turning at the right point, imo.

Thanks rollnloop, but I think you misundersdtood me somewhat. It is not his ability to roll, loop, scissors, or perform maneuvers of any kind that is unrealistic. It is the AI's ability to accelerate, climb, and dive at speeds which exceed that of A/C they could not match in speed that is the problem. It has almost always been the case, save for one version, long ago, I cannot recall the number. In that one version, the AI performed as they would have in real life, speed-wise. Significanlty slower. Then in the next version they were back to their lightning-fast hijinks.
It would be great if Certificate could make a mod to amend this excess speed, it would not be a violation of the rules since it would affect only the AI. If people did not like it, they would not use it. :wink:
I would definitely use it!

[The_Psy]

Even the cruise speed is very fast, 450Kph for BF109 is a bit to much... IMO it's not very realistic, at this speed your engine will not survive for long...

Off course it's only my opinion.

[Pellaeon]

ok if someone already asked or not i don't care to read through the whole thing.

If on a coop game over internet with one person that has the mod and one person doesn't. How would the AI behave? I wouldn't work at all i think unless the AI does something different for each person? but that is impossible since then it would be a hack. and hacks are bad. :evil:

Well, from a cursory look at the code, I'd say that the coop hoster's machine controls the AI behavior, and tells the clients where the enemy planes are and what they're doing. I didn't change any parameters that the clients can't handle. If that is indeed the case, the clients are just being told differently what to display and when.

The same way that if you and I connect to someone else's coop game, it takes our input, position, speed etc and sends it to everyone else in the game, it's taking the AI's position, speed etc and sending it to everyone else in the game.

I could be way off base on that point, so someone please test it.

So how would this mod work? it can't reset to default behavior because then its useless, but at the same time it cant change the other persons files because then they could sue the creator because it's an infringment of personal data when you change it

Don't worry about that, there's no way this mod is changing anyone's files. Not possible.

I've had this mod installed but never really tested it. Our squadron (Vultures Row) flew our regular DCG campaign, but the host didn't have this mod installed. When I went up against some Spits I noticed a HUGE difference in their behavior. Everyone in the squad saw it too. We saw the AI doing maneuvers we'd never see them do before, not even Aces. They were pulling almost everything in the book.

One Spit had me working for 5 mins straight. I was getting fatigued and felt like I was going up against a seasoned human.

So, I'm not sure if the host not having this mod does or does not effect a client who does have it installed, but I saw what I saw...

[VR_masic]

Our squad flew our DCG campaign. There I was flying a 109G-2 .The allies had been reduced and where flying P-40's ..I got into one chase that turned into a wick flight that ended up going with us doing scssiors, to hammerheads. Not normal AI type hamemrheads, but he was rolling out at the top, so it wasn't even close to beeing a typical AI kill. The host didn't have the AI mod but everyone that flew felt a differnce.

This will make the co-ops we run totally different now..looking forward to it.

masic

[Hellkitty]

Yesterday me and my squad were flying COOPS using certificates AI mod.
Although most of us are experienced players the AI still gave us a very hard time.
Everybody noticed the difference and almost everybody got shot down in the first try.



Thank you for this great mod.