[RAF_Magpie]

CFS1 was ruined by mods.. You could never tell who had them and who didn't.. and I was kicked from more than one room on the zone simply because I flew better than some folks and was accused of cheating...

Whats the big deal guys... granted kos could have opened up this thread in a far less confrontational way.. but why keep going over the debate and not only that, what is wrong with some kind of app so that folks who want to host totally mod free competitive servers have that ability... and those who want mods can have them and if the two sides wish to coexist then that too can be a viable option...

No one is demanding that any of you or any of the guys making these mods...( and the truth is that some of these mods are GREAT STUFF.... some folks may not like that , not here of course...) stop doing that. It is way past that and it was actually past that from day one. That was why I made my first post over here when all this stuff broke out in the first place.. There is no reason to continue the hostility between the two camps for the obvious reasons and if this solution comes to fruition there will be even less reason for acrimony.... at least that is what I would like to see.

Some kind of app to at least screen for mods is a good thing.... No one is accusing anyone here of cheating.. and anyone who says modding=cheating is obviously clueless.... but for anyone to deny the fact that cheaters will use mods to cheat... and that some kind of protection against thsoe who would do that is absolutely necessary in a modded environment is fooling themselves. So all of you need to just lighten up... and keep flying.

Yes, - such an App would be a good thing. Na85's idea - I agree with. On principle at least. The thing is making such an App isnt anyone's responsibility.

I've offered my assistance to Na85 in building this - although I dont know what good I will be. I am an advicate for all here on this site, and aplaud all the effort and work being done. I think you'll find that such posts as this, in such a confrontational manor (as you put it), kinda strikes sore spots - particuarly considering the amount of grief anyone here gets on 'The Other' Forums (this whole thing reminds me a bit of Lost ).

CFS1 was killed by mods, but it was also made better because of them. Its a catch 22 really - and as of yet, apart from Anti-Mod's Cheats (ie the I-153-UberSpec) which are still only rumour, this site has produced NOTHING negative or destructive.

I cant speak for all here, only myself; but I'm sure that if such things are done to limit the ability of lesser individuals to create, or at least use modded FM's, or other cheats.

Perhaps, as someone suggest earlier, the program could simply be server based, that does a scan in Il2's registry, for particular files. Or scans the FILELIST file or whatever - I dont know. But if this was implemented on the server... Who could object to such a thing...? As far as I can see, no-one would... but to expect it of someone, is wrong.

I havent seen cheating INCREASE because of the sound mod. And the "evidence" posted at the Uber-Zoo, well that just dont cut the mustard! (one thing that strikes me as ironic, is said evidence doesnt actually confirm the cheating is because of the MODS does it?)

Kosmev, (as others have said...) if you have the ability to do this hack, then come in here and basically advertise such, why dont YOU produce something to help prevent Mod-Abuse...?

Sorry if what I'm saying doesn't make sense - been a long day

[RAF_OldBuzzard]

Bear:

The Ark ROYAL killed CFS1?
RAF_Prune's (Roger Lowery) heavy bombers killed CFS1?
The NDB/ADF system killed CFS1?
CFO killed CFS1?
Multiswap Killed CFS1?
TG1 and TG2 killed CFS1?
You know as well as I do (even if you don't want to admit it here) that in truth, CFS1 was pretty pathetic WITHOUT the above (and other) 'mods'. CFS1 survived and was still going strong until well after CFS2 was released. CFS1 died because it was finally just too old, and technology had passed it by. No more, no less.

So you got booted for 'being too good'. Whoopie...that happened to a lot of us at one time or another. I got accused of cheating in IL2 some time back just because I shot down some little weenie that thought he was God's gift to combat sims. Turns out, said 'weenie' is very well known at the UbiZoo.

Like I said, I'd welcome some sort of 'Mod to the mod', but I'm not going to lose any sleep if it doesn't happen. REAL LOVERS of the game will manage to get by without it.

[DioMac]

I have an easy solution for Kosmev and his mates......it dosent involve editing any files and you never have to hear from them again. It's also environmentally friendly and it euthaneses trolls in a humane and quick manner. So you won't have the RSPCA or PETA nuts after you












In fact you can even make pre-emptive strikes before the have a chance to be arsonists

[Uther]

Luckily after several days of asking,Evgeny has finally locked the 1C threads!

[Bearcat]

Bear:

The Ark ROYAL killed CFS1?
RAF_Prune's (Roger Lowery) heavy bombers killed CFS1?
The NDB/ADF system killed CFS1?
CFO killed CFS1?
Multiswap Killed CFS1?
TG1 and TG2 killed CFS1?
You know as well as I do (even if you don't want to admit it here) that in truth, CFS1 was pretty pathetic WITHOUT the above (and other) 'mods'. CFS1 survived and was still going strong until well after CFS2 was released. CFS1 died because it was finally just too old, and technology had passed it by. No more, no less.

So you got booted for 'being too good'. Whoopie...that happened to a lot of us at one time or another. I got accused of cheating in IL2 some time back just because I shot down some little weenie that thought he was God's gift to combat sims. Turns out, said 'weenie' is very well known at the UbiZoo.

Like I said, I'd welcome some sort of 'Mod to the mod', but I'm not going to lose any sleep if it doesn't happen. REAL LOVERS of the game will manage to get by without it.

Of course not allthe mods killed cfs... but the rampant use of mods and accessability to the FM/DM/Weps files in particular by any Tom.Dick or Harry who could fgure it out did kill it.. absolutely.

Yes CFS1 was old... but online play in the Zone especially towards the end was tainted by the fact that you just never knew if the guy that beat you just was better, had better gear (the trim exploit in CFS1 was unreal..) or was using mods. I'll never forget the notorious Movegetouttheway... this guy would come into servers and just blast everyone in there out of the sky... and then leave... and there were others.. but he sticks out in my mind because he wqas so blatant with it... One of the reasons why I was able to leave CFS so readilly, dispite the fact that I had so many froends there, was that IL2 did not have the same problems.. at least not to the same extent.

[Postman_Pat]

I'm a happy MOD user who is afraid to post under his well known UBI and 1C forum name. Just because my squad might get a bad reputation and no other users will fly with us anymore. I think there are more people like me. Some people are soooooo over reacting when they hear someone fly's the mod. :roll:

I also play online, without the MOD. Just because I like full real servers. There is a very obvious diffrence between the MOD and un-MOD version. Il2FB.exe un-modded is about 4Mb big, the modded version is something like 150Kb. Maybe someone invent a tool to check the size and presence of some files? I have no programming skills at all, but it sounds real easy to me.

[Bearcat]

You should never have to go incognito. Everyone who knows me here knows me @ UBI,SHQ,1C,SoH,Frugals,CWOS and wherever I happen to go by the same name.. including Hyperlobby... ad most people who know me know that regardless to my feelings on the mods even if I did have them.. I wouldn't fly them where they weren't wanted... and my squad does the same. Your squad rep will e more influenced by what you say and how you and your mates act on HL and in whatever forums you may frequent. My 2 cents..

[urufu_shinjiro]

You should never have to go incognito. Everyone who knows me here knows me @ UBI,SHQ,1C,SoH,Frugals,CWOS and wherever I happen to go by the same name.. including Hyperlobby... ad most people who know me know that regardless to my feelings on the mods even if I did have them.. I wouldn't fly them where they weren't wanted... and my squad does the same. Your squad rep will e more influenced by what you say and how you and your mates act on HL and in whatever forums you may frequent. My 2 cents..

I've been on the same page with you throughout this mod situation (for the most part, I love me mods, lol), but I sadly have to disagree with you. This is how it should be but unfortunately it's not. There really is a stigma attached to using the mods in any way. It's really very sad, but true.

[Bearcat]

You should never have to go incognito. Everyone who knows me here knows me @ UBI,SHQ,1C,SoH,Frugals,CWOS and wherever I happen to go by the same name.. including Hyperlobby... ad most people who know me know that regardless to my feelings on the mods even if I did have them.. I wouldn't fly them where they weren't wanted... and my squad does the same. Your squad rep will e more influenced by what you say and how you and your mates act on HL and in whatever forums you may frequent. My 2 cents..

I've been on the same page with you throughout this mod situation (for the most part, I love me mods, lol), but I sadly have to disagree with you. This is how it should be but unfortunately it's not. There really is a stigma attached to using the mods in any way. It's really very sad, but true.

Yeah.... and thats why I think a server side mod manager is the best solution.. if something could be made that would give more insurance of un modded FDWs then I bet alot more people would embrace the mods... I hesitate to say the "other mods" because if I am not mistaken even iof some folks have hacked some FDWS for the most part the mods that exist and especially the ones here are only added features... and some of those features are things that a lot of peiople have been asking for for a long time.

[Incubus]

OK .. at risk of getting attacked, I will state my position.

I am involved in running a dogfight server.
Yes, the cheating is a concern.
No, I don't think the mods are a bad thing .. I've downloaded a bunch of them in trying to investigate how this affects my server, and most of them are great.

Would I like to have the new maps and flyables on my server - so long as there are no spawn issues .. Hell yes !!!!
However - opening up the server to flyables means opening it up to all the cheat mods, and that is unacceptable.

What I would like to see is a compatibility check with a mod pack from AAA.
sort of a crt=3 check for AAA mods - this way you could fly on the server only if you have the AAA pack, not with any mod you like.
I don't know if anyone remembers the 714.lib fromplaying Fighters Anthology, but IIRC, that was one where without the lib, you couldn't join - it kept everyone on a level field for online play .. and that is what most onliners want.

Most online players just don't want to be shot down by the CR.42 w/ 10 mk108's flying @ 600kph !!!!

IF such a mod pack could be made .. I think quite a large majority of the online crowd would shut up .. and I'd even venture to say that many would actually welcome the mods !

For the strictly offline crowd .. just try and place yourself in the others shoes is all I ask .. it's easy to say just fly w/ your squad etc ... but is that really a reasonable request ?

I don't want a war of words .. I don't care if you want to insult me .. but I do think this would be the answer to stop the complaints from most online players .. and would enable servers to run mods, but still offer some security from the cheaters.

Edit: Seems Bearcat posted while I was writing. LOL I agree Bearcat

[RAF_Magpie]

Such a system is in the works...

btw- these 'newly' flyables, have been able to be flown online for a LOT longer than just since the sound mod - and unlocking them on a server is old news (and doesnt open anything for cheating) as any tom dick or harry could fly them (think: RCAF server) - just not from the inside.

[carosel43]

Right, i only found out about this debate today am currently in a chat with some other guys who fly with me and we are all quite worried about where this is leading. clearly mods that enhance weapons or engine power or change the flight dynamics are not mods, they are cheats and cheating is banned from servers as far as i am aware. the mods from AAA are nothing short of spectacular, the engine and other sounds add a new realism to the game and adding the new aircraft has added new flexability and the addidtion of a cockpit has not changed the way the aircraft flys. that said there are cases where i think the weapons/flight models are innaccurate and might warrant a change but this would need to be done after some very careful consultation (for example 50cal mg's are not powerful enough and the mosquito and hurricane dont fly as well as they did in reality and the ki46 is way to good to be true) this leaves us with a very fine line between adding realism and making 'hot rod' aircraft for online ego boosting.

[RAF_Magpie]

Carosel, first, good to see that you havent gone the standard route of accusations and name calling.

HOWEVER, to repeat myself, and others - yet again, I suggest you look very deeply into the threads on this site, spend a day or two doing this, and you will answer your own questions.

It isnt happening, nor will it be sanctioned (at least for the time being) by this site.

Do yourself a favor, and us, and please do not continue this debate...

[Bearcat]

That is why I am still here... Jolly, Wolf etc are doing a great job from what I can see of trying to keep the spirit of this mod community as straight up as possible and even though the initial hacking of the sim has "issues" that many of the anti mod crowd will always have problems with, you cant , not if you want to be honest... read through some of these posts here and not see that some of the mods that have been created are dreams come true for many. I have been hoping to get a way to skin static aircraft for years.... I look forward to flying over a base and seeing parked Redtail planes... or parked planes with accurate markings period. Even the sounds, although I personally dont have problems with the sounds I have.... but I can see where some might...

There will always be cheaters.. and as long as there is any kind of competition be it for dollars or just bragging rights at stake, there will always be someone who will be willing to cheat to win... That's why they have refs in professional sports..... but I have to believe from what I have seen here that the majority of the folks here just want to fly... and have a good time.

Until I see otherwise then I will keep visiting here and eventually I will be trying some of these mods.. but I just want to see how all this shakes out.

Finding a real viable way that is truly workable to insure the integrity of online play would make these mods explode into the entire community and go along long way to reassuring many many folks.

In the end most of the opposition to the mods is because of the potentuial for the online issues.. and I am sure that Oleg knew that all this was connected and he didnt have the time or resources to take away from new projects... after all... BoB is not the only thing 1C does... keep that in mind..... just a quick look at the front page of their forum will give you some idea of just how much is on their plate.... they arent sitting around waiting for us to make more demands on them... LOL..

[carosel43]

Magpie i think you missed my point, mayb i didnt word it quite right, i never suggested AAA were making what i would class as cheats, i was mearly stating that there can be a very fine line between a cheat and a mod. also i am gradually working through the threads and gaining a better understanding of what is going on, and while alot of good points are made theres alot of personal attacks, discussions are great, bickering is not.